according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it
Plenty of doping doctors told us that EPO is useless.
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Ryo Hazuki wrote:..
source for the 150.000 dollar?
sniper wrote:In 2011 an Aicar treatment for a procyclist was rumored to cost around 150.000 dollar.
Yes, expensive.
What the current price is, I have no idea.
Tienus wrote:according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it
Plenty of doping doctors told us that EPO is useless.
malakassis wrote:
any explanation why there is no top 100-time for the 1999 ADH-ascent ? (the guerini vs. cam fight)
it was the stage after armstrong stormed sestriere, so i suppose cooked GC-guys is one explanation.
but is there any reasonable "clinic" reasons for low 1999 performances?
malakassis wrote:
any explanation why there is no top 100-time for the 1999 ADH-ascent ? (the guerini vs. cam fight)
it was the stage after armstrong stormed sestriere, so i suppose cooked GC-guys is one explanation.
but is there any reasonable "clinic" reasons for low 1999 performances?
Ryo Hazuki wrote:sniper wrote:In 2011 an Aicar treatment for a procyclist was rumored to cost around 150.000 dollar.
Yes, expensive.
What the current price is, I have no idea.
source for the 150.000 dollar? according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it
ColonelKidneyBeans wrote:Ryo Hazuki wrote:sniper wrote:In 2011 an Aicar treatment for a procyclist was rumored to cost around 150.000 dollar.
Yes, expensive.
What the current price is, I have no idea.
source for the 150.000 dollar? according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it
ColonelKidneyBeans wrote:Ryo Hazuki wrote:sniper wrote:In 2011 an Aicar treatment for a procyclist was rumored to cost around 150.000 dollar.
Yes, expensive.
What the current price is, I have no idea.
source for the 150.000 dollar? according to dr ferrari it could be traced and was useless in it's stimulant effects. I don't think anyone would use it if even doping doctors advice against it
Ferrari has said many things, some truthful, some blatant lies and many whose truthfulness value lies in between...
Concerning AICAR testing, only cologne seems to have a working test, and i'm not sure about it's practicality. AICAR is an endogenous molecule, and one that does not seem incredibly complex at first glance. It's not like EPO where there's subtle difference between the human version and the exogenous version (EPO is a very big glycoprotein, if i'm not mistaken there's even some variation in the endogenous forms of it) and you can "just" use some form of chromatography or electrophoresis to separate them.
I don't know about AICAR, maybe a isotope carbone ratio test would work, but it's quite expensive.
So they probably would end up with a "working" test just like the testo test (not exactly the same mechanism,but for the sake of example), where you set a threshold and use the expensive test when the athlete exceed it. Since it will probably be set high, that's leaving plenty of room to microdose... Or manipulation by bypassing the threshold and going straight to te second test with certain athletes... Ok a bit of conspiracy but remember the Verbruggen quote...
Working on a molecule still in clinical trials might not help them too...
Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Nomad wrote:Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.
Nomad wrote:Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:sniper wrote:Some racing without extravagant jet fuel, sure, but zuelle clean? Whayahahayahahauaj.
he definintely used no epo in 99 (according to l'equipe tests). not to mention the guy was a mental wreckage after the tour 98. I don't think he ever juiced afterwards. same with moreau
Ryo Hazuki wrote:Nomad wrote:Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.
only due to passage de bois. otherwise zulle would've won. I think zulle lost more than 7 minutes there among many other gc favorites and riders who retired
Gung Ho Gun wrote:Ryo Hazuki wrote:Nomad wrote:Escarabajo wrote:The 2004 leaks from Lequipe for the 1999 testing where epo was found in Armstrong documented some speculative amounts in each's body. Armstrong was one of the highest. And found little or none in others. Some ex-cyclists were commenting that the peloton was relatively scare after the Festina affair and was probably cautious. I don't think that Lance cared.
Times to ADH could have been affected.
I could be wrong but I read it too long ago. Maybe somebody has better details.
Interesting point...LA destroyed Zulle by over 7 1/2 mins that year...his biggest margin of victory in any of his 7 Tours.
only due to passage de bois. otherwise zulle would've won. I think zulle lost more than 7 minutes there among many other gc favorites and riders who retired
No he didn't. He lost 6 minutes there and lost another 1'40 in the time trials and Sestriere.
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