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I Hate to do this but Brad Wiggins

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23 Jul 2009 00:21

Parrot23 wrote:Doping is about corruption of ethics, bright light. Not sanitation.

and you missed the metaphor.

But I appreciate the fraud and ocrruption element, and Garmin have taken this to new heights.

"We are clean" ergo, the relativity, motivation behind this communications. Implying others are not clean...
User avatar blackcat
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23 Jul 2009 00:39

Cynicism is its own reward. You're fully paid up in that view. Shine a light in the darkness, and some folks will change one by one.
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23 Jul 2009 02:43

Parrot23 wrote:Bala, I don't know, so I can't jump to conclusions on that one. No idea. Am just looking at him now; not looking to defend his track career. Not a fanboy.

One thing: Boardman and he tend to have a squeaky clean reputation. Granted, that's NOT saying much about Wiggo now.

It's not as if they already have a really shadey rep. like DiLuca.


That's why I was asking, ie if he had a murky past. In much of the discussion about Wiggins, people refer to his, by all means, exceptional track record to argue that he is/was a very gifted rider indoors. Hence they infer that, in essence, he could be very gifted on the road as well.

If however his track record was based on 'dubious' preparatory programs/with the help of 'dubious' methods, obviously this would undermine the argument. I know too little about track history and the development of their riders to contribute much to the discussion, hence my question for clarification.
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23 Jul 2009 02:52

Bala Verde wrote:That's why I was asking, ie if he had a murky past. In much of the discussion about Wiggins, people refer to his, by all means, exceptional track record to argue that he is/was a very gifted rider indoors. Hence they infer that, in essence, he could be very gifted on the road as well.

If however his track record was based on 'dubious' preparatory programs/with the help of 'dubious' methods, obviously this would undermine the argument. I know too little about track history and the development of their riders to contribute much to the discussion, hence my question for clarification.

thing is, there have been others with very good palmares on the track, Bartko and Mcgee. And Bartko did jack. Mcgee compromised his track by trying to become a classement rider, losing weight. He should have been a stage hunter, because he was clean, and could not compete for GC. He would have beaten Wiggins on the track, no doubt, with the same preparation and focus with the specifity towards the IP.

If folks think the track is tough in the IP, look at Jenning Huizenga. Pulled out the fastest time in Manchester worlds last year. And Hayden Roulston, just comes back to the sport, and pulls out a silver medal at the Olympics.
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23 Jul 2009 15:38

That was... incredible in the true sense of the word.

I was fantastically wrong in my prediction of Contador's performance.
dienekes88
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23 Jul 2009 16:41

dienekes88 wrote:That was... incredible in the true sense of the word.

I was fantastically wrong in my prediction of Contador's performance.

Remember, you have to take two factors at this stage of the race:
1- How riders recuperate naturally from day to day
2- Doping. Which is also helps in the recuperation anyway.
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23 Jul 2009 17:07

Escarabajo wrote:Remember, you have to take two factors at this stage of the race:
1- How riders recuperate naturally from day to day
2- Doping. Which is also helps in the recuperation anyway.


Indeed.

However, my other predictions were pretty close.

Based on Twiggo's time of 49'13"

Armstrong: predicted @ 35"; actual @ 47"
Difference = 12", .4% of his time (50'00")

Kloeden: predicted @ 45" (wild guess); actual @11"
Difference = 34", 1.15% of his time (49'24")

A. Schleck: predicted @ 1'08"; actual @1'02"
Difference = 6", 0.2% of his time (50'15")

Nibali: predicted @ 2'15"; actual @1'23"
Difference = 52", 1.7% of his time (50'36")

Took a wild guess on Kloeden, because he was setting the pace for Armstrong on Verbier, and was wrong. Nibali... I just underestimated him.
dienekes88
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23 Jul 2009 17:17

dienekes88 wrote:Indeed.

However, my other predictions were pretty close.

Based on Twiggo's time of 49'13"

Armstrong: predicted @ 35"; actual @ 47"
Difference = 12", .4% of his time (50'00")

Kloeden: predicted @ 45" (wild guess); actual @11"
Difference = 34", 1.15% of his time (49'24")

A. Schleck: predicted @ 1'08"; actual @1'02"
Difference = 6", 0.2% of his time (50'15")

Nibali: predicted @ 2'15"; actual @1'23"
Difference = 52", 1.7% of his time (50'36")

Took a wild guess on Kloeden, because he was setting the pace for Armstrong on Verbier, and was wrong. Nibali... I just underestimated him.

Percentage of error should be taken on the prediction itself. If you divide the difference by the total time then the percentage is very small.

But it doesn't matter anymore. At least we are learning how these riders are coping with recuperation.
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23 Jul 2009 18:01

dienekes88 wrote:So you're saying:
Wiggins
Contador @ 30"
(hopefully) Nibali?
Kloeden @ 1'20"
Armstrong @ 1'20"
Schleck @ 2'00"


Yes, that was about what I thought.

Now the confrontation with reality:

Contador
Wiggins at 42"
Kloden at 53"
Armstrong at 1'29"
Schleck at 1'44"
Nibali at 2'05"

Ok, if you exchange Wiggins with Contador, it doesn't look all that bad actually. Admittedly, Nibali was more a fond hope than a solid prediction.

But let me just see what I actually wrote:

1) Wiggins gains 30" on Conrador. WRONG, it's just the opposite
2) Schleck will lose 1'30" on Contador. CLOSE (I was 14" off)
3) Schleck will lose 30-40" on LA. CLOSE (he lost only 15")
4) Kloden about same time as LA. NOT REALLY (36" better)
5) Hope that Nibali can make time on LA (WRONG, he lost 36")

So, as mostly, I was more wrong than right which is of course the reason why I shouldn't do predictions in the first place. :o
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23 Jul 2009 18:21

Cobblestones wrote:Yes, that was about what I thought.

Now the confrontation with reality:

Contador
Wiggins at 42"
Kloden at 53"
Armstrong at 1'29"
Schleck at 1'44"
Nibali at 2'05"

Ok, if you exchange Wiggins with Contador, it doesn't look all that bad actually. Admittedly, Nibali was more a fond hope than a solid prediction.

But let me just see what I actually wrote:

1) Wiggins gains 30" on Conrador. WRONG, it's just the opposite
2) Schleck will lose 1'30" on Contador. CLOSE (I was 14" off)
3) Schleck will lose 30-40" on LA. CLOSE (he lost only 15")
4) Kloden about same time as LA. NOT REALLY (36" better)
5) Hope that Nibali can make time on LA (WRONG, he lost 36")

So, as mostly, I was more wrong than right which is of course the reason why I shouldn't do predictions in the first place. :o


Hahaha. You were pretty close!

I think we have to give ourselves some credit, because we're forecasting TINY differences (a matter of seconds) in a 50'00" effort! That's why I did the error as a percent of total time. Clearly, we could do an analysis of variance, but... that would take time.

Escarbarajo is just annoyed that the only prediction he made was 2'00" off... :)
dienekes88
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Re:

14 Mar 2017 05:13

Sintesi wrote:If Wiggins is a doper then there's no hope for the sport at all. Garmin Slipstream is probably the most comprehensively tested and monitored team on the planet right now. The have like 600 tests a year and mapped all sorts of "markers" in each riders blood profile to catch any tampering. Garmin Slipstream's whole mission is to be the most transparently clean team in cycling.

So if one can be on that team and still get away w/ cheating then we can pretty much toss the sport for good. Be horrible wouldn't it?


Funny how all this worked out! 600 tests a year? All mappped with "markers"? :cool:
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Re: Re:

14 Mar 2017 07:02

thehog wrote:
Sintesi wrote:If Wiggins is a doper then there's no hope for the sport at all. Garmin Slipstream is probably the most comprehensively tested and monitored team on the planet right now. The have like 600 tests a year and mapped all sorts of "markers" in each riders blood profile to catch any tampering. Garmin Slipstream's whole mission is to be the most transparently clean team in cycling.

So if one can be on that team and still get away w/ cheating then we can pretty much toss the sport for good. Be horrible wouldn't it?


Funny how all this worked out! 600 tests a year? All mappped with "markers"? :cool:


just when was the internal testing scrapped JV?

when Damsgaard was given the Cervelo? oh, wrong team, that was CSC.

when Professor Don Catlin saw the US TnF trials urine glowing like a CSI blue light over Monica Lewinsky's blue velvet dress Linda Tripp took to the Korean dry cleaners in DC.

no backcat, that was LA Olympics, you are conflating the initials acronym Armstring and Catlin when he came back in 09. And Catlin said he would test LA. but not the t&F urine. And which Korean dry cleaners in DC? there are alot of Korean dry cleaners in DC.

Well, they could not give a Felt to Victor Conte and ask him to test them, cos he has better class in bicycles innit, and Lim was on Garmin, so he could not be testing his own team... or could he?

who was testing for gollum? rebekka brooks? I add the second k, much to the chagrin of some.

gollum does not need testing for sky. JV should adopt gollum's MO on having the cleanest team, the winningest team, the team that wins and races clean. Its clean. the salient determinant is clean qua clean.

does clean allow you to use a motor, say, st13 Ventoux 2013? Are motors clean?
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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14 Mar 2017 10:54

Yeah, the motors they use are very clean. zero emissions.
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14 Mar 2017 13:58

https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=8m26s

i dont speak the language (spanish?) but i love the astonishment in their voices @ wiggons performance's throughout this video xD
chuuurles
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Re:

14 Mar 2017 15:39

chuuurles wrote:https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=8m26s

i dont speak the language (spanish?) but i love the astonishment in their voices @ wiggons performance's throughout this video xD


Of course they are surprised.

Watching this video, its just so hillarious that there were people out there who believed wiggins was clean. Some of them would even have died for the cause. I feel sorry for the families of these people. They did nothing to deserve the lifelong sentence of having to share their lives with such idiots.
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Re: Re:

14 Mar 2017 15:43

The Hitch wrote:
chuuurles wrote:https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=8m26s

i dont speak the language (spanish?) but i love the astonishment in their voices @ wiggons performance's throughout this video xD


Of course they are surprised.

Watching this video, its just so hillarious that there were people out there who believed wiggins was clean. Some of them would even have died for the cause. I feel sorry for the families of these people. They did nothing to deserve the lifelong sentence of having to share their lives with such idiots.


Love the commentary, "I think it's Wiggins!"...... :lol:

The only thing just as surprising is Lance in the Astana jersey, just doesn't look right, like Wiggins climbing with the lead group.
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14 Mar 2017 17:12

the opening post of this thread is so good. 100% spot on almost 8 years later.
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Re:

14 Mar 2017 17:21

zlev11 wrote:the opening post of this thread is so good. 100% spot on almost 8 years later.


It is, great call.

Post #2 is 100% "bot on" 8 years later.
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Re:

14 Mar 2017 18:19

chuuurles wrote:https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=8m26s

i dont speak the language (spanish?) but i love the astonishment in their voices @ wiggons performance's throughout this video xD


https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=825

This is much much better
burning
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Re: Re:

14 Mar 2017 18:46

burning wrote:
chuuurles wrote:https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=8m26s

i dont speak the language (spanish?) but i love the astonishment in their voices @ wiggons performance's throughout this video xD


https://youtu.be/SlLLgBdBtpQ?t=825

This is much much better
chuuurles
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