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Marginal Gains

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Marginal Gains

13 Oct 2014 22:24

PEZ: Plateau de Beille?
JB: It was stage two of the Ronde de L’Isard which was part of the 1999 UCI under-23 World Cup.

We were an Italian team (UC San Paolo) and knew of most of the French climbs but hadn’t heard of the Plateau de Beille when the organisers faxed us the parcours.

Then someone said it was the one where Pantani had won in the 1998 Tour – I think that was the first time that it was used.

We got hold of videos of Pantani’s win and sat down and studied them.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/plateau-de-beille-record-man-jamie-burrow/#.VDxP-VdZukc


Another one where Sky's analysis of T Martin's TT being videoed and analysed was touted as a marginal gain.

Well here they're doing it for an U23 race in 1999.

Marginal gains would seem to be useful the first time you used it, otherwise it's a marginal maintenance yeah?

Good grief.
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14 Oct 2014 01:25

Dear Wiggo wrote:Another one where Sky's analysis of T Martin's TT being videoed and analysed was touted as a marginal gain.

Well here they're doing it for an U23 race in 1999.

Marginal gains would seem to be useful the first time you used it, otherwise it's a marginal maintenance yeah?

Good grief.

come on DW, you underestimate the power of marginal gains. Jamie Burrow went on to set the record, breaking Il Pirata's record!

proof is in the english pudding. garginal mains work!

stiff upper lip, purity, muscular christianity, gordonstoun, chariots of fire, tennyson and marginal gains plus brailsford

oh, and jamie burrow, the most talented climber not from colombia
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14 Oct 2014 01:48

I would think a marginal gain is a gain as long as (all or some of) your competition is not doing the same thing. What difference does it make how many times you do it?
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14 Oct 2014 05:41

Don't be late Pedro wrote:I would think a marginal gain is a gain as long as (all or some of) your competition is not doing the same thing. What difference does it make how many times you do it?


Funny, in the context of learning curves and diminishing returns, marginal gains represent the point beyond which all improvements, collectively, don't really matter. It is a journey to the insignificant.

Thus, with respect to your statement, the more times you do it, you would be lucky to have even a marginal improvement on an increasingly marginal gain.

Dave.
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14 Oct 2014 07:07

D-Queued wrote:Funny, in the context of learning curves and diminishing returns, marginal gains represent the point beyond which all improvements, collectively, don't really matter. It is a journey to the insignificant.

Thus, with respect to your statement, the more times you do it, you would be lucky to have even a marginal improvement on an increasingly marginal gain.

Dave.

Perhaps 'doing the same thing' is not the best choice of words but it does not necessarily correlate that a marginal improvement decreases the more times you do it.
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14 Oct 2014 08:51

Don't be late Pedro wrote:Perhaps 'doing the same thing' is not the best choice of words but it does not necessarily correlate that a marginal improvement decreases the more times you do it.


I'm with Dave. I suspect repeated marginal gains = diminishing returns.

Actually, I just think marginal gains is a crock of ****

proof is in the english pudding. garginal mains work!

stiff upper lip, purity, muscular christianity, gordonstoun, chariots of fire, tennyson and marginal gains plus brailsford



Blackcat, you had me at Muscular Christianity...
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14 Oct 2014 08:51

I been watching Lance on Sestriere hard out. Can't wait for it to kick in.
ralphbert
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14 Oct 2014 09:27

if it is true gain(s) and IP, what, is Brailsford like China now and leakage of IP.

why would you tell your competitors where you have some advantage, and allow them to neutralise it. re:zero sum, giving them the tool and losing your advantage over them

market efficiency would say such technique would be met in kind...

so this is a paradox, mere mention of "marginal advantage" will have it evaporated (and the background technique)
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14 Oct 2014 09:45

Anyone who thinks marginal gains is anything but a smokescreen needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
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14 Oct 2014 14:50

Dear Wiggo wrote:Marginal gains would seem to be useful the first time you used it, otherwise it's a marginal maintenance yeah?


Yes. You've 'banked' that improvement as such and continuing is only holding the gain you've made, however small.

However because Team X did something one time 20 years ago doesn't mean everyone does it every time now.
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14 Oct 2014 14:58

TailWindHome wrote:Yes. You've 'banked' that improvement as such and continuing is only holding the gain you've made, however small.

However because Team X did something one time 20 years ago doesn't mean everyone does it every time now.

no, its a gain on the market. once the market (see: peloton) moves, your gain has been nullified. its a paradox. you mention it, with the key, and it disappears
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14 Oct 2014 15:15

blackcat wrote:no, its a gain on the market. once the market (see: peloton) moves, your gain has been nullified. its a paradox. you mention it, with the key, and it disappears


Yes if you assume that everyone does it, does it well and does it consistently.

In effect everyone has made the same gain.
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14 Oct 2014 15:19

ralphbert wrote:i been watching lance on sestriere hard out. Can't wait for it to kick in.


:d:d:d:d:d:d
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14 Oct 2014 15:55

TailWindHome wrote:Yes if you assume that everyone does it, does it well and does it consistently.

In effect everyone has made the same gain.


If you assume that there are few secrets in pro cycling as riders move from team to team regularly then any marginal gain gets passed on very quickly. Also bear in mind plenty of riders live together from different teams and no doubt share information.

Uran, Quintana and the Henao's live together. 3 teams 1 house.
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14 Oct 2014 16:16

Benotti69 wrote:If you assume that there are few secrets in pro cycling as riders move from team to team regularly then any marginal gain gets passed on very quickly. Also bear in mind plenty of riders live together from different teams and no doubt share information.
indeed.
Uran, Quintana and the Henao's live together. 3 teams 1 house.

that's in pamplona.
then there's girona, where you have members of three or four teams (if not more) living and training together as well, plus teams coming there for training camps.
And I think similar can be said about a place like Monaco.
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14 Oct 2014 19:33

One could argue that the ABP was the father of marginal gains...
Dope within the limit's and find the products that doesn't give you "A" problem.....
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14 Oct 2014 19:36

mrhender wrote:One could argue that the ABP was the father of marginal gains...
Dope within the limit's and find the products that doesn't give you "A" problem.....

isnt that what Slipstream do? Their "A" riders on the July team
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14 Oct 2014 19:42

blackcat wrote:isnt that what Slipstream do? Their "A" riders on the July team


They got "A" right to do so ;)
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14 Oct 2014 19:42

blackcat wrote:isnt that what Slipstream do? Their "A" riders on the July team


That and machine calibration errors in the 3rd week of GTs....
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14 Oct 2014 20:46

I rate marginal gains somewhere between flat earth society and bigfoot.

Incredible what kind of nonsense people can delude themselves into believe.
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