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Marginal Gains

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14 Oct 2014 22:21

the thing is, its a potential negative economy.

they should look at dialling in the 3 or 4 tangibles that contribute 98% of the performance formula, and just dial dial dial and refine those factors to their latent potential.

this cr@p of garginal mains will potentially take some focus off those key ingredients, so you dont dial them in at 100%. Its not like, it is axiomatic you hit 100% with your performance, and every 0.01%, a 00001 improvement is net gain. my @rse.Taking your eye off the ball, and eye off the prize can only lead to a negative economy, a loss.

and D Q's pithy epigram, marginal gains aint a rounding error on ferrari. NO $HIT!!!
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15 Oct 2014 18:50

the sceptic wrote:I rate marginal gains somewhere between flat earth society and bigfoot.

Incredible what kind of nonsense people can delude themselves into believe.


As noted in a different thread, by promoting this crap you'd think everyone is and had been riding with square wheels or hard rubber tires.

'Aha, you go faster if you put air in the inner tube.'

blackcat wrote:...

and D Q's pithy epigram, marginal gains aint a rounding error on ferrari. NO $HIT!!!


Thanks! And, of course, agreed.

Dave.
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16 Oct 2014 10:19

I have just finished Faster by Michael Hutchinson. Its one Sky & BC W@nkfest.

He doesn't even stop to think "Hmmm, wait on, Froome hasn't done this yet" when he is talking about testing VO2 or wind tunnel testing.

Laughable the way his ****es on them without thinking about it.

There is a section on marginal gains and that's quite a decent read, but its also funny too. They are talking about the suits they used for the team pursuit at London 2012, seeing which fabric was better. It was Boardmans wife apparently that had to point out that the riders sweat and therefore they need testing wet.....
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16 Oct 2014 12:07

D-Queued wrote:As noted in a different thread, by promoting this crap you'd think everyone is and had been riding with square wheels or hard rubber tires.

'Aha, you go faster if you put air in the inner tube.'



Thanks! And, of course, agreed.

Dave.


Lets assume for a second that marginal gains is in fact real and that it can make clean rider faster than dopers, and that team sky were the first to discover this.

Well then, what is the logical thing to do? Any sane person will come up with the correct answer here. You keep it to yourself.

But sky didnt do this, they talked about it to anyone who were willing to listen. They gave away the secret to every other team in pro cycling. Why would they spend so much time and money developing this huge advantage for then just to give it away for free to everyone else? Doesnt make any sense.

Lets take it one step further then. If you still believe in unicorns at this point you have to ask yourself: Now that the cat is out of the bag, surely the other teams will start using marginal gains too. But then, what will happen when dopers start using it? Surely the combination of doping + marginal gains will be superior to only marginal gains.
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16 Oct 2014 12:59

MartinGT wrote:I have just finished Faster by Michael Hutchinson. Its one Sky & BC W@nkfest.

He doesn't even stop to think "Hmmm, wait on, Froome hasn't done this yet" when he is talking about testing VO2 or wind tunnel testing.

Laughable the way his ****es on them without thinking about it.

There is a section on marginal gains and that's quite a decent read, but its also funny too. They are talking about the suits they used for the team pursuit at London 2012, seeing which fabric was better. It was Boardmans wife apparently that had to point out that the riders sweat and therefore they need testing wet.....


I have that yet to read on the Kindle whenever I feel like a bit of comedy fiction!
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16 Oct 2014 14:04

the sceptic wrote:Lets assume for a second that marginal gains is in fact real and that it can make clean rider faster than dopers, and that team sky were the first to discover this. [color="Blue"]These are 3 separate assumptions[/color]


Well then, what is the logical thing to do? Any sane person will come up with the correct answer here. You keep it to yourself. [color="blue"]Keep what to yourself? 'Marginal Gains' as such is nothing more than the application of common business improvement techniques to sporting performance. Go into any bookshop or library and there'll be a shelf full of books on these topics [/color]


But sky didn't do this, they talked about it to anyone who were willing to listen. They gave away the secret to every other team in pro cycling. Why would they spend so much time and money developing this huge advantage for then just to give it away for free to everyone else? Doesnt make any sense.

[color="Blue"]Can't have it both ways - demand to know how a team improves in order to determine that they aren't cheating, but when you get an answer say it can't be true as if it was they wouldn't have told you about it[/color]


Lets take it one step further then. If you still believe in unicorns at this point you have to ask yourself [color="Blue"]still with the unicorns?[/color]




Now that the cat is out of the bag, surely the other teams will start using marginal gains too. [color="blue"]Maybe yes maybe no. Maybe they're as sceptical as you are and don't see the benefits. Or don't have the budget/resources to implement in full. Or believe what they're doing already is just fine. Where a clever team can derive an advantage is by cherry picking the best of what a marginal gains team may have done [/color]



But then, what will happen when dopers start using it? Surely the combination of doping + marginal gains will be superior to only marginal gains. [color="blue"]Of course. Doping doesn't mean you can't improve your performance in other ways[/color]



10 characters
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17 Oct 2014 02:35

it's nice to believe in miracles
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17 Oct 2014 02:49

i believe in negative economies and opportunity costs before sky[SIZE="1"]TM[/SIZE] marginal gains
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17 Oct 2014 03:24

MartinGT wrote:They are talking about the suits they used for the team pursuit at London 2012, seeing which fabric was better. It was Boardmans wife apparently that had to point out that the riders sweat and therefore they need testing wet.....

Stiff upper lip dont sweat...
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17 Oct 2014 03:52

Fearless Greg Lemond wrote:Stiff upper lip dont sweat...

gordonstoun gets cold
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17 Oct 2014 15:50

TailWindHome wrote:...Keep what to yourself? 'Marginal Gains' as such is nothing more than the application of common business improvement techniques to sporting performance. Go into any bookshop or library and there'll be a shelf full of books on these topics...



If you read through those books, you might come across the concept of Trade Secrets.

Those are the precious things that you don't even disclose through patent protection because they critical competitive advantage.

In professional cycling, which like other professional sport is beautiful in its simplicity of objectives, why would you disclose such Trade Secrets on the key to winning?

If disclosure was part of the sport's culture, and Omerta wasn't, then more folks than Riis and Frankie would be disclosing past doping without being forced to make a deal with USADA or be subpoenaed.

It is illogical and culturally inconsistent to reveal the secrets to true competitive advantage.

Dave.
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09 Nov 2014 19:24

Sounds like this guy is a real believer in the benefits of marginal gains as well and well before SKY.

"He described the philosophy of his medicine to us. It emcompassed everything that I had tried vainly to apply over the previous three years. The doctor spoke about diet, alternative medicine and Chinese principles. He referred to the beneficial effects of ginseng, royal jelly, grape juice and non-alcoholic beer. These words flowed into my ears like a fountain of honey"

Anyone care to guess who the above quote is from?
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09 Nov 2014 19:39

pmcg76 wrote:[color="Gray"]Sounds like this guy is a real believer in the benefits of marginal gains as well and well before SKY.[/color]

"He described the philosophy of his medicine to us. It emcompassed everything that I had tried vainly to apply over the previous three years. The doctor spoke about diet, alternative medicine and Chinese principles. He referred to the beneficial effects of ginseng, royal jelly, grape juice and non-alcoholic beer. These words flowed into my ears like a fountain of honey"

Anyone care to guess who the above quote is from?


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09 Nov 2014 23:07

D-Queued wrote:If you read through those books, you might come across the concept of Trade Secrets.

Those are the precious things that you don't even disclose through patent protection because they critical competitive advantage.

In professional cycling, which like other professional sport is beautiful in its simplicity of objectives, why would you disclose such Trade Secrets on the key to winning?

If disclosure was part of the sport's culture, and Omerta wasn't, then more folks than Riis and Frankie would be disclosing past doping without being forced to make a deal with USADA or be subpoenaed.

It is illogical and culturally inconsistent to reveal the secrets to true competitive advantage.

Dave.

which has been my staccato refrain in this and other threads from the start.

this is the paradox of marginal gains, once uttered, it neutralises itself. like a cycling particle physics. Atom ceases to be everywhere when you see it.
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10 Nov 2014 23:37


"So from the outside looking in I can understand how people might interpret this but Oleg has really invested a large amount in sports science on this team. We're running from that platform and it makes sure that riders don't have to make the decisions we did. In my opinion sports science very much trumps the advantages that the last generation got from doping."


This is pretty funny. Too bad they forgot to ask him which generation Contador belongs to.

I really wish Walsh could get himself imbedded and write a book about this.
MC: I don’t think Chris fully understood that (Vinokourov) had doped.

CF: No, I knew.

MC: Not fully.
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11 Nov 2014 10:39

the sceptic wrote:This is pretty funny. Too bad they forgot to ask him which generation Contador belongs to.

I really wish Walsh could get himself imbedded and write a book about this.


Old school warrior :cool:
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11 Nov 2014 11:25

pmcg76 wrote:Sounds like this guy is a real believer in the benefits of marginal gains as well and well before SKY.

"He described the philosophy of his medicine to us. It emcompassed everything that I had tried vainly to apply over the previous three years. The doctor spoke about diet, alternative medicine and Chinese principles. He referred to the beneficial effects of ginseng, royal jelly, grape juice and non-alcoholic beer. These words flowed into my ears like a fountain of honey"

Anyone care to guess who the above quote is from?


Oh yeah, this quote came from Christophe Bassons, paragon of clean.
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15 Sep 2015 15:41

BBC doing an "in-depth" magazine article on Marginal Gains
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34247629#comp-index-title
- see especially the section on Speed Eating!
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15 Sep 2015 16:09

sarginal mains, the major in kubrik's full metal jacket.
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Re:

15 Sep 2015 18:08

TourOfSardinia wrote:BBC doing an "in-depth" magazine article on Marginal Gains
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34247629#comp-index-title
- see especially the section on Speed Eating!


Written by a Sky bot aka Times hack Matthew Syed. More PR nonsense to fool the idiots.

Read his twitter feed for total Skybotness.......

https://twitter.com/matthewsyed
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