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Marginal Gains

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

15 Sep 2015 18:38

the sceptic wrote:
D-Queued wrote:As noted in a different thread, by promoting this crap you'd think everyone is and had been riding with square wheels or hard rubber tires.

'Aha, you go faster if you put air in the inner tube.'


Thanks! And, of course, agreed.

Dave.


Lets assume for a second that marginal gains is in fact real and that it can make clean rider faster than dopers, and that team sky were the first to discover this.

Well then, what is the logical thing to do? Any sane person will come up with the correct answer here. You keep it to yourself.

But sky didnt do this, they talked about it to anyone who were willing to listen. They gave away the secret to every other team in pro cycling. Why would they spend so much time and money developing this huge advantage for then just to give it away for free to everyone else? Doesnt make any sense.

Lets take it one step further then. If you still believe in unicorns at this point you have to ask yourself: Now that the cat is out of the bag, surely the other teams will start using marginal gains too. But then, what will happen when dopers start using it? Surely the combination of doping + marginal gains will be superior to only marginal gains.


Well, borrowing from "LRP said" thread: Sky started Great Transformations from TTer to mountain eagle,now everybody's doing it, even GIANT.
doperhopper
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Re:

16 Sep 2015 03:35

TourOfSardinia wrote:BBC doing an "in-depth" magazine article on Marginal Gains
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34247629#comp-index-title
- see especially the section on Speed Eating!

is that speed eating bit legit?? "Kobayashi"??
Isn't that the unwinnable test in Star Trek - the "kobayashi maru"?
The one that Kirk hacks (or cheats) to win...
User avatar Archibald
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16 Sep 2015 07:08

Fluff my pillows Dave.
Brian Butterfield
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Re: Marginal Gains

16 Sep 2015 07:25

Obviously marginal gains work. Froome has the fastest average speed on Ax-3-Domaines . Faster than a whole bunch of dopers ,,,it works :D
ray j willings
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Re: Re:

16 Sep 2015 07:28

Archibald wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:BBC doing an "in-depth" magazine article on Marginal Gains
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34247629#comp-index-title
- see especially the section on Speed Eating!

is that speed eating bit legit?? "Kobayashi"??
Isn't that the unwinnable test in Star Trek - the "kobayashi maru"?
The one that Kirk hacks (or cheats) to win...


focus on the result: the guy DOUBLED the world record...now I'm scared of what we can expect from Wiggo on the track during one hour... or Vroom on Alpe
doperhopper
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16 Sep 2015 07:36

Is Landa a marginal gain for Team Sky?
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog
User avatar Dear Wiggo
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Re:

16 Sep 2015 12:22

Dear Wiggo wrote:Is Landa a marginal gain for Team Sky?


It depends how many hot dogs he can eat.
ray j willings
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Re: Marginal Gains

16 Sep 2015 12:45

Marginal Gains is something hyped up when it suits and hyped down when it suits - particularly by Dave Brailsford.

Take the average feature on a pro-riders bike featured on cycling news. Electrical tape on wheels and elsewhere on the bike, marker pen used to disguise tub manufacturers names, cable ties, bits of paper sellotaped to stems. Rubber bands, lizard skins taped to bars. The list goes on.

CN hails these as cutting edge bike enhancements and marginal gains.

No they are not, they look heath robinson (a mess), amateurish and like something out of some DIY disaster video. If it were all about marginal gains and aerodynamics, stems would have an integrated route profile window as standard and all these other "enhancements" would be incorporated into the product design.

If they represent an advantage the manufacturers clearly don't believe it or else they would modify the design (as do clothing manufacturers).

Total and utter BS!!
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Re: Marginal Gains

16 Sep 2015 13:00

Of course the Marginal Gains "philosophy" wasn't invented by Sky...........................Lord Bald (Clive Woodward) was the first to espouse it with English rugby (do everything 1% better than everyone else and it all adds up)...........of course, the change in size and jawline profile of some of the players at the time was interesting as well........
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16 Sep 2015 16:49

"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws
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Re:

16 Sep 2015 19:36

Brian Butterfield wrote:Fluff my pillows Dave.


I think you'll find that Walshe & other Journos are the official Sky 'Fluffers' :eek: :eek: :D :D
keeponrollin
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16 Sep 2015 20:34

I do think the modern day program is truly operating with marginal gains.

To think the term only applies to the legal/grey side of matters would in my opinion be very naive.

And for all the marginal gains served to us, only few has been of own initiative/truly innovative.

The true marginal gain is more likely applied to the doping side of the matter?
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Re:

16 Sep 2015 21:07

mrhender wrote:I do think the modern day program is truly operating with marginal gains.

To think the term only applies to the legal/grey side of matters would in my opinion be very naive.

And for all the marginal gains served to us, only few has been of own initiative/truly innovative.

The true marginal gain is more likely applied to the doping side of the matter?


For sure.

Comprehensiveness of doping is one thing thing that stratifies the current peloton. A reason that someone like Llyod Mondory can be taking EPO and be so far behind the top tier. (Of course, for all we know, he could have been on a full regime, but just illustrating a point, assume it was just EPO).

The CIRC witness that claimed to take 31 pills a day, that combination of medications is the marginal gain. Dosing enough testosterone and EPO in the perfect harmony is another. And it only gets more complex (and gain-ful) when more elements are added. Some bigger-than-marginal gains can be had from getting it exactly right.
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Re: Re:

16 Sep 2015 21:12

ray j willings wrote:
Dear Wiggo wrote:Is Landa a marginal gain for Team Sky?


It depends how many hot dogs he can eat.


one can eat much more than that poor japanese guy... with genetically enhanced stomach that processes the food three times faster (called Enhanced Processing Organ)
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Re:

17 Sep 2015 10:51

vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............
Handy Bendy Ghandi
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2015 11:52

Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............


Campase?
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2015 12:04

del1962 wrote:
Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............


Campase?

I doubt Campase would appreciate being called a backrow player :) And I suspect the only drug he was on was ego (probably justified though).

No..........one of the white orcs
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2015 12:08

Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
del1962 wrote:
Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............


Campase?

I doubt Campase would appreciate being called a backrow player :) And I suspect the only drug he was on was ego (probably justified though).

No..........one of the white orcs


Sorry it was the ony Itallian sounding rugby player I could think of, as you say he is cleans it must be someone else
del1962
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2015 12:25

del1962 wrote:
Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
del1962 wrote:
Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............


Campase?

I doubt Campase would appreciate being called a backrow player :) And I suspect the only drug he was on was ego (probably justified though).

No..........one of the white orcs


Sorry it was the ony Itallian sounding rugby player I could think of, as you say he is cleans it must be someone else

Oh, Campo is one of the few players I'd say that about - his main role was to run very fast and score tries, and he was so talented at it that he didn't really need any artificial help.............(plus, he'd have probably regarded PED use as an insult to his own genius).

Although rugby is my main sporting love, and I've played and coached (at a very low level), I'm under no illusions that it's at all clean................PED use is absolutely rife
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2015 16:19

Handy Bendy Ghandi wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:"White orcs on steroids" - Michael Laws

Yeah.........or "White orcs on HGH" may be more appropriate...........particularly for one backrow player with an Italian sounding surname............


Dallaglio?
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