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Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

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Re: Re:

23 Feb 2018 19:47

Parker wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
Presumably Brailsfraud's company was based off-shore so he could dodge the inconvenient business of paying income tax

Another example of Braislfraud and Team Sky setting an exemplary ethical example :rolleyes:

Not clear why the arrangement has now changed and he's had to become a humble employee. Maybe the tax dodge was challenged by HMRC

Have you had a look where the company is based or are you just guessing?

(Hint: An industrial estate in Cardiff isn't 'off-shore')

It was co-owned by his wife/partner. My guess is they're splitting up.


So the industrial estate in Cardiff is the registered office according to Companies House's records? Is it possible that the company's HQ for accounting purposes is based elsewhere?

And if he's splitting up why not just set up a new company all of his own with a registered office in a Cardiff industrial estate and an HQ for accounting purposes who knows where to receive his bunce for that consultancy work for Sky?

Sorry, but your "he's split up so must become an employee" theory doesn't stack up
Wiggo's Package
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23 Feb 2018 20:54

Looks a pretty typical UK company to me if you are a consultant. Spouse is made secretary, then director which will have some benefits for them both of course, but all pretty typical. If I was going to guess it will be they are separating too. Not sure what the advantages are for Disney to put him on Tour Racing Ltd as a full-time employee rather than pay him as a consultant like Sky? Interestingly the company moved address just a couple of days ago, so I would imagine Brailsford will set another company up at that new address without his spouse as partner maybe?
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Re:

23 Feb 2018 21:38

samhocking wrote:Looks a pretty typical UK company to me if you are a consultant. Spouse is made secretary, then director which will have some benefits for them both of course, but all pretty typical. If I was going to guess it will be they are separating too. Not sure what the advantages are for Disney to put him on Tour Racing Ltd as a full-time employee rather than pay him as a consultant like Sky? Interestingly the company moved address just a couple of days ago, so I would imagine Brailsford will set another company up at that new address without his spouse as partner maybe?


Financially it's a loser for the employer if a consultant becomes an employee. If Jess Varnish wins her legal case against BC that will increase BC's (and probably the other Olympics sports) employment costs by 20%. Getting hit for income tax and national insurance (like mug punters everywhere!) is just so unfair if you've relied on a blagger's loophole for a long time :rolleyes:

So suggesting this change is driven by Sky or their overlords doesn't stack up financially. Just like Parker suggesting it's due to a relationship break up doesn't stack up. Nice try though, dudes :o

Given the financial downside to both employer and consultant/employee more likely IMO their hand has been forced by HMRC. And don't forget Wiggo ("Just a humble kid from Kilburn blah blah blah") was exposed as the recipient of a tax dodge scam. Heroes with feet of clay etc

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2227264/Bradley-Wiggins-withdraws-controversial-tax-dodging-scheme-linked-company-Caymans.html

So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth ;)
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

23 Feb 2018 22:21

There's no possible way, from two directors liquidating a company from Minnesota and changing company address to a new premises 3 days ago, you can possibly know it's got anything to do with HMRC or otherwise. You know as little as we do and that he's liquidating his company. Anything else you've said is a guess like us, nobody's claiming to be correct, it's simple discussion. In a few days time he might have set-up a new company, announced retirement, getting married and buying a £5M house with the assets, nobody knows anything, even Daily Mail who didn't expand on it either.
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 00:31

Wiggo's Package wrote:So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth ;)

So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)
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24 Feb 2018 06:27

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Re:

24 Feb 2018 07:31


The Dawg might have Monanco, but Gee, might not have a spleen, but he has Cardiff ... I feel a "Men of Harlech" moment coming on. :D
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

24 Feb 2018 10:44

samhocking wrote:There's no possible way, from two directors liquidating a company from Minnesota and changing company address to a new premises 3 days ago, you can possibly know it's got anything to do with HMRC or otherwise. You know as little as we do and that he's liquidating his company. Anything else you've said is a guess like us, nobody's claiming to be correct, it's simple discussion. In a few days time he might have set-up a new company, announced retirement, getting married and buying a £5M house with the assets, nobody knows anything, even Daily Mail who didn't expand on it either.


But why would Brailsfraud choose to become an employee and lose a big chunk of his income to tax? Please don't tell me it's an ethical decision! The most likely answer is that he didn't choose, his hand was forced, by HMRC

If he's splitting up with his partner he can do that without changing his employment status. That theory is just a non-sequitur
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 10:49

Parker wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth ;)


So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)


Cardiff is a red herring. Brailsfraud signed the forms closing the company down in Minnesota. From there in corporate terms it's just a short hop to an off-shore tax haven like the BVI

As for the Kool-Aid thing. This from the Wiki... ;)

"In recent years it has evolved further to mean extreme dedication to a cause or purpose, so extreme that one would "Drink the Kool-Aid" and die for the cause"
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 12:11

samhocking wrote:Looks a pretty typical UK company to me if you are a consultant. Spouse is made secretary, then director which will have some benefits for them both of course, but all pretty typical. If I was going to guess it will be they are separating too. Not sure what the advantages are for Disney to put him on Tour Racing Ltd as a full-time employee rather than pay him as a consultant like Sky? Interestingly the company moved address just a couple of days ago, so I would imagine Brailsford will set another company up at that new address without his spouse as partner maybe?


That address is the for Menzies LLP an Insolvency practice - likely its them handling the liquidation.

Edit - its is them, its in the declaration.
Last edited by TheSpud on 24 Feb 2018 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 12:19

Wiggo's Package wrote:
Parker wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:So, are you and Parker going to stop drinking the Kool-Aid any time soon? Just because the Sky gang keep telling you they're ethical (or did they stop?) it doesn't mean they're telling you the truth ;)


So I'm drinking 'Kool-Aid'* because I don't think Cardiff is an off-shore tax haven. I really, really wish it was, but it's not.

*PS Kool-Aid. You need to update your conspiracy theory tropes. That one is really dated. I think 'red pill/blue pill' is favoured now (although that's nearly 20 years old now)


Cardiff is a red herring. Brailsfraud signed the forms closing the company down in Minnesota. From there in corporate terms it's just a short hop to an off-shore tax haven like the BVI

As for the Kool-Aid thing. This from the Wiki... ;)

"In recent years it has evolved further to mean extreme dedication to a cause or purpose, so extreme that one would "Drink the Kool-Aid" and die for the cause"


There was also a declaration signed in Derby which you conveniently didnt mention. What conclusion can we draw from that? Nothing really.

Also, whether the company is offshore or not, if DB is resident in the UK for Tax purposes (which he likely is) then he is liable to UK income tax on any earnings he receives from any company anywhere in the world. An offshore company is only useful for paying lower Corporation Tax. The fact that the declaration shows that money is owed to HMRC shows that the company is not offshore.
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24 Feb 2018 13:10

And the company is wholly owned by Brailsford and Buckle, so no offshore holding companies, etc.
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24 Feb 2018 13:50

What kind of business did he have set up in Minnesota?
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 13:55

TourOfSardinia wrote:What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html
HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 18:50

fmk_RoI wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html
HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.


Occam's razor strikes again

As usual Kool Aid and the Gang are in denial
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 19:10

Wiggo's Package wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html
HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.


Occam's razor strikes again

As usual Kool Aid and the Gang are in denial
Mind you don't dislocate a shoulder patting yourself on the back there, you don't exactly come out of this smelling of roses. Not least for this:
Wiggo's Package wrote:So suggesting this change is driven by Sky or their overlords doesn't stack up financially.
It stacks up perfectly if you bother to actually check the relevant tax law.
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Re: Re:

25 Feb 2018 09:54

fmk_RoI wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:What's the spin on this?

Up to this point Brailsford has been paid as consultant to parent company not an employee of Team Sky
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5424283/Sir-Dave-Brailsford-closes-consultancy-business.html
HMRC had a major recent victory which is going to make it harder to argue you're not an employee. Google it up and read all about it.


Correct - I'm amazed that he's been able to get away with being a 'consultant' for 8-9 years and not an employee.
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Re:

25 Feb 2018 09:58

spetsa wrote:What kind of business did he have set up in Minnesota?


Who knows - Minnesota isn't a well known offshore tax haven (in fact it isn't a tax haven at all as far as I am aware). Now, if it was Delaware then the story could have some more legs.
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

25 Feb 2018 10:03

The HMRC crackdown is on employers using long-term self-employed worker to escape payroll etc. For Brailsford working self-employed under his Ltd company it doesn't really apply to him directly because he doesn't employ anyone. His Tax & NICs will already have been deducted accordingly.

Liquidating his company might well be because Tour Racing Ltd are being forced to change Brailsford's status from self employed to Employee and putting him on payroll, so he has no need for it anymore, but that has nothing to do with Brailsford liquidating his company. You can be a director of your own company and be employed by another, that's perfectly normal. i.e. whatever HMRC might be doing with Tour Racing Ltd has no effect on Brailsford Ltd unless he has employees, which he doesn't, simply has himself and a partner as directors.

In terms of liquidating from US, who knows. Obviously him and his partner is soon to have £5M to now invest somewhere or split if they are separating so might be related to this being done from a legal services company in US who's probably handling it all for them.
Last edited by samhocking on 25 Feb 2018 10:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

25 Feb 2018 10:13

samhocking wrote:The HMRC crackdown is on employers using long-term self-employed worker to escape payroll etc. For Brailsford working self-employed under his Ltd company it doesn't really apply to him directly because he doesn't employ anyone. His Tax & NICs will already have been deducted accordingly.

Liquidating his company might well be because Tour Racing Ltd are being forced to change Brailsford's status from self employed to Employee and putting him on payroll, so he has no need for it anymore, but that has nothing to do with Brailsford liquidating his company. You can be a director of your own company and be employed by another, that's perfectly normal. i.e. whatever HMRC might be doing with Tour Racing Ltd has no effect on Brailsford Ltd unless he has employees, which he doesn't, simply has himself and a partner as directors.

In terms of liquidating from US, who knows. Obviously him and his partner is soon to have £5M to now invest somewhere or split if they are separating so might be related to this being done from a legal services company is US who's probably handling it all for them.
Please, come back when you actually understand the subject. Just about everything said above is verifiable BS.
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