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Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

15 Mar 2017 00:03

Electress wrote:
Dan2016 wrote:
Electress wrote:
gillan1969 wrote::) not good at linking stuff so you'll need to click link yourself...after his letter to Coe now this :-) Where UKAD don't go, Damian does...let transparency be the judge....Sir Dave must love this guy...bringing all this out.....

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news-parliament-2015/combatting-doping-in-sport-correspondence-published-16-17/


Kind regards....! :lol:

Damian Collins is priceless.

Wish he'd asked why Freeman believed he had no prescription rights in France when he does. Or why he couldn't have gone 15 minutes to a Swiss pharmacy on the way to Les Gets...

And they can tell you the name of the bloody pharmacy in Switzerland, but they can't produce shread of evidence of what was in the package or where they dispensed their drugs to. Laughable.

I note he didn't answer on the subject of how many riders received the Kenalog....


Amazing isn't it. I've just read that exchange and Skygollum as an 'ability' to answer questions without answering questions.

The number of riders involved in the taking of those 10 ampoules is very important. Hiding behind medical confidentiality is ridiculous. Collins didn't ask for names, just total number.

And what about TUE's for those 10 ampoules? Not necessarily needed, but might be a worthwhile question.


The thing is that, as is patently obviously, they have absolutely no evidence for any of these assertions. So Sky's response isn't worth the paper it is written on. They could claim the injected Brailsford's dog wit Kenalog for all it stands up to scrutiny.

I would quite like it confirmed how these ampoule are administered...is it needles ?

They basically claim that for two years no one could manage to get the good Dr to upload files for their star rider in adherance to Management Policy. Two years. FFS. It's only a drag and drop; the guy would have to be IT-remedial and their systems so pathetically weak...that squares with what we've heard about the dictatorial / authoritarian, bullying management style....

Seems that Dr Peters found his Human Mind was no match for Freeman's unruly Chimp, eh?

What follows is virtually all self-righteous waffle and content free. Just words strung together to provide a fig leaf. I told my boss about all this over lunch (I've been telling him for years, and he had the grace today to say 'Well, you told me so!), and when I told him some of the stuff that was being claimed his response (as a non-cycling or even sports fan) was 'Are they Imbeciles? Does anyone believe that?'


Haha, yes you're right of course, regarding the 10 ampoules my bollox filter burned out with the amount it had to deal with in those letters. As you say ''they (Skygollum) have absolutely no evidence for any of these assertions''. It's brilliant, in a bad way of course. Just make stuff up and brazen it out. Freeman is on the receiving end of 'busthrowundery' (great word). Poor guy, being labeled an imbecile. Dropbox is very very easy to use.

I note a degree of what I would label as passive-aggressive language in the Skygollum letters too. It's very very subtle. It's usually an attempt to turn the tables, disorientate and control. I'm conscious of this due to past experience so it's possible I'm over analysing. Phrases like ''It is important to emphasise again'', emphasis on again. It's an unnecessary and deliberate addition.

I have to say I admire Damian Collins' ability to write a letter expressing complete mocking incredulity in such a subtle manner it appears it isn't. Maybe that's my bias but I did chuckle reading it.

I can't get 'The Thick of It' TV series out of my head with all of this. Particularly towards the end when they were in court or in front of a parliamentary committee or something. It's hilariously accurate.
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15 Mar 2017 00:04

Maybe Dr. Freeman's laptop was infected with a virus that prevented the drag-and-drop from working properly when it came to Froome's files only. Badzilla.exe
Benotti69 wrote:I don't believe anything from Astana any more than Sky.
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

15 Mar 2017 07:51

Reading Sir DB's letter to the MPs is like reading Trump's tweets - a lot of smoke and made up stuff that can be easily disproved. But both don't give a f*** as nobody can do anything about it. Sad!
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

15 Mar 2017 10:12

Robert5091 wrote:Reading Sir DB's letter to the MPs is like reading Trump's tweets - a lot of smoke and made up stuff that can be easily disproved. But both don't give a f*** as nobody can do anything about it. Sad!

I dont like that decision. I am not happy about that deal!
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15 Mar 2017 18:43

All Dave B's sheltering behind the shields of Governance and medalist values
is put in question here:

UK Sport ‘went easy’ on British Cycling to keep medal factory intact
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/15/uk-sport-went-easy-british-cycling-medal-factory
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16 Mar 2017 14:17

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-leadership-should-take-responsibility-and-not-blame-freeman-says-mp/
"Damian Collins MP, the Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee has told Cyclingnews that the leadership at Team Sky should take responsibility for their failings to provide sufficient medical records in the UK Anti-Doping investigation surrounding Bradley Wiggins."
Does that just mean saying sorry? :D
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Re:

16 Mar 2017 14:36

TourOfSardinia wrote:All Dave B's sheltering behind the shields of Governance and medalist values
is put in question here:

UK Sport ‘went easy’ on British Cycling to keep medal factory intact
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/15/uk-sport-went-easy-british-cycling-medal-factory


I think we are now at "state sponsored" doping program.
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2017 14:54

thehog wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:All Dave B's sheltering behind the shields of Governance and medalist values
is put in question here:

UK Sport ‘went easy’ on British Cycling to keep medal factory intact
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/15/uk-sport-went-easy-british-cycling-medal-factory


I think we are now at "state sponsored" doping program.
Umm, I don't think "sponsored" means what you think it means. Having ten shots of expresso before a race doesn't make you as guilty as HWMNBN.

BTW, at this point whether or not there was kenacort in the jiffy bag (no need to preach to the choir on that one), I'm pretty sure there was fluimicil too. I mean, it's just too bad of a story to make up.
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2017 15:03

carton wrote:
thehog wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:All Dave B's sheltering behind the shields of Governance and medalist values
is put in question here:

UK Sport ‘went easy’ on British Cycling to keep medal factory intact
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/15/uk-sport-went-easy-british-cycling-medal-factory


I think we are now at "state sponsored" doping program.
Umm, I don't think "sponsored" means what you think it means. Having ten shots of expresso before a race doesn't make you as guilty as HWMNBN.

BTW, at this point whether or not there was kenacort in the jiffy bag (no need to preach to the choir on that one), I'm pretty sure there was fluimicil too. I mean, it's just too bad of a story to make up.


Brailsford only stepped down from his role at BC in 2014? So how was it not state sponsored?
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2017 15:27

Benotti69 wrote:Brailsford only stepped down from his role at BC in 2014? So how was it not state sponsored?
BC isn't the state. There's been no evidence or even allegations that the state (UKSport, et al) was directly pursuing a sponsored doping program. At most what that tell us is that tells us the state was apparently negligent. Which we mostly knew, but it's good to have some sourced allegations published. But this isn't the FSB hacking the anti-doping labs. It's nowhere near the vicinity of anywhere near that.
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2017 15:49

carton wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Brailsford only stepped down from his role at BC in 2014? So how was it not state sponsored?
BC isn't the state. There's been no evidence or even allegations that the state (UKSport, et al) was directly pursuing a sponsored doping program. At most what that tell us is that tells us the state was apparently negligent. Which we mostly knew, but it's good to have some sourced allegations published. But this isn't the FSB hacking the anti-doping labs. It's nowhere near the vicinity of anywhere near that.


State provided funds to BC. State funding or state sponsorship, why split hairs?

It was the pursuit of medals and a win at all costs which is a state sponsored doping program.

If the state was concerned about doping they have not shown that. In fact UK sports has shown they are not interested in investigating how the medal count is so high against known state sponsored programs.
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2017 15:57

Benotti69 wrote:State provided funds to BC. State funding or state sponsorship, why split hairs?

It was the pursuit of medals and a win at all costs which is a state sponsored doping program.

If the state was concerned about doping they have not shown that. In fact UK sports has shown they are not interested in investigating how the medal count is so high against known state sponsored programs.
I don' think I'm splitting hairs here. There's a real difference IMHO. It doesn't mean that it wasn't potentially very bad. USPS wasn't state sponsored doping as well. The state (via the postal service) clearly wasn't attempting to organize a doping programarme there either.

That the British State should've exerted more oversight seems like a rather uncontroversial statement at this point. But as you put it yourself, doping the athletes wasn't an ongoing concern of the state, as far as we know.

Edit: Obviously the typo is where it matters most. Duh.
Last edited by carton on 16 Mar 2017 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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16 Mar 2017 18:44

carton wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:State provided funds to BC. State funding or state sponsorship, why split hairs?

It was the pursuit of medals and a win at all costs which is a state sponsored doping program.

If the state was concerned about doping they have not shown that. In fact UK sports has shown they are not interested in investigating how the medal count is so high against known state sponsored programs.
I don' think I'm splitting hairs here. There's a real difference IMHO. It doesn't mean that it wasn't potentially very bad. USPS wasn't state sponsored doping as well. The state (via the postal service) clearly wasn't attempting to organize a doping programarme there either.

That the British State should've exerted more oversight seems like a rather uncontroversial statement at this point. But as you put it yourself, doping the athletes was an ongoing concern of the state, as far as we know.
De facto state sponsored perhaps...possibly, maybe. A state throws a huge wad money at a sport, sees a return of endless medals and willfully ignores the history of the sport and how said medals are often/usually won. No questions asked at any stage. Knowing and willful participation is maybe an unnecessarily narrow definition.
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16 Mar 2017 19:06

A lot of the comments to the articles on the CN main page sound just like the astroturfed comments that Lance's PR team bought for when he went down. Almost word-for-word arguments. UK Postal just keeps on following the model.

I feel sorry for people who don't believe in miracles. I feel sorry for people who believe those arguments are real.
Benotti69 wrote:I don't believe anything from Astana any more than Sky.
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Re:

16 Mar 2017 19:31

Beech Mtn wrote:A lot of the comments to the articles on the CN main page sound just like the astroturfed comments that Lance's PR team bought for when he went down. Almost word-for-word arguments. UK Postal just keeps on following the model.

I feel sorry for people who don't believe in miracles. I feel sorry for people who believe those arguments are real.


Yeah I've seen that. I feel a bit sorry for them, I don't mean that patronisingly, I mean I feel bad for them. I know some of these people, not literally the ones commenting...ye know what I mean. Many of them really love the sport, many of them race etc., etc.

Their love of it, and the meaning they get out of it, is predicated on 'the good stuff', ye know, the pure, white, moral hero stuff. It's important to many people innit. Not everyone easily embraces the dark and the absurd and the chaotic realities without loosing their footing. Kind of like a religious psychology.

I reckon some people are giving them too hard a time, a bit too much mocking and sneering.
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16 Mar 2017 19:55

Brailsford the so-called master of details and leave no stone unturned is coming across as a run of the mill cycling manager. :D
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Re:

16 Mar 2017 23:38

Dan2016 wrote:
carton wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:State provided funds to BC. State funding or state sponsorship, why split hairs?

It was the pursuit of medals and a win at all costs which is a state sponsored doping program.

If the state was concerned about doping they have not shown that. In fact UK sports has shown they are not interested in investigating how the medal count is so high against known state sponsored programs.
I don' think I'm splitting hairs here. There's a real difference IMHO. It doesn't mean that it wasn't potentially very bad. USPS wasn't state sponsored doping as well. The state (via the postal service) clearly wasn't attempting to organize a doping programarme there either.

That the British State should've exerted more oversight seems like a rather uncontroversial statement at this point. But as you put it yourself, doping the athletes was an ongoing concern of the state, as far as we know.
De facto state sponsored perhaps...possibly, maybe. A state throws a huge wad money at a sport, sees a return of endless medals and willfully ignores the history of the sport and how said medals are often/usually won. No questions asked at any stage. Knowing and willful participation is maybe an unnecessarily narrow definition.


This is a sins of commission, sins of omission issue. It sounds more like the latter to me. But it's a very fine line. Its all very well saying 'well, we went easy so as not to upset the apple-cart', so long as there was no suspicion that the apple cart was being fuelled by illegal or unethical means. If there were the slightest questions of this, and they turned a blind eye, well, that's tacit acceptance that there may be doping going on which they were not going to look for very hard. Not quite 'state sponsored' but not very far off, since it's the tacit acceptance that the money you provide might not be going where it should. Too much of that, and pretty soon its an active blind eye you are turning, and all of a sudden....'here's the money, get the medals, don't tell me how'.
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Re: Re:

17 Mar 2017 20:46

carton wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:State provided funds to BC. State funding or state sponsorship, why split hairs?

It was the pursuit of medals and a win at all costs which is a state sponsored doping program.

If the state was concerned about doping they have not shown that. In fact UK sports has shown they are not interested in investigating how the medal count is so high against known state sponsored programs.
I don' think I'm splitting hairs here. There's a real difference IMHO. It doesn't mean that it wasn't potentially very bad. USPS wasn't state sponsored doping as well. The state (via the postal service) clearly wasn't attempting to organize a doping programarme there either.

That the British State should've exerted more oversight seems like a rather uncontroversial statement at this point. But as you put it yourself, doping the athletes wasn't an ongoing concern of the state, as far as we know.

Edit: Obviously the typo is where it matters most. Duh.


State wanted medals. State provided money to get medals. State didn't ask how they procured said medals.
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Re:

17 Mar 2017 22:16

Beech Mtn wrote:Maybe Dr. Freeman's laptop was infected with a virus that prevented the drag-and-drop from working properly when it came to Froome's files only. Badzilla.exe


Quote to acknowledge "lol"!
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Re:

19 Mar 2017 20:03

Beech Mtn wrote:A lot of the comments to the articles on the CN main page sound just like the astroturfed comments that Lance's PR team bought for when he went down. Almost word-for-word arguments. UK Postal just keeps on following the model.

I feel sorry for people who don't believe in miracles. I feel sorry for people who believe those arguments are real.


Something tells me that DB is not going away without hoisting the middle finger. If Paris-Nice and Milan-San Remo are indicators, we should all be looking forward to the Giro with a fully transformed Geeeee Man, and, of course, Le Tour. Froomie is going to go thermonuclear. It goes without saying he will win the Maillot Jaune, but for good measure, I expect him to add the Green Jersey, the Polka Dot Jersey, and cap it off with a winning sprint on the Champs-Élysées, blowing away Cavendish, Sagan, Greipel, and Kittel in fully seated washing-machine-spinning rocket mode.
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