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Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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16 Mar 2018 10:16

Mod hat on:


We have removed a very large number of posts from this thread that were either against the rules or part of the conversation. We are trying very hard to allow conversation to flow and not limit it and this includes allowing some personality in people's posting style. You are free to write what you want and respond to what you want within the forum rules. However, the large number of arguments and reports recently mean we will be keeping a very close eye on these discussions. Please bare this in mind when you post.

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User avatar King Boonen
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16 Mar 2018 11:55

Only just seen this article, it's 5 days old but some may enjoy...


"What crisis-ridden Team Sky must do to restore their shredded credibility"

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/11/team-sky-chris-froome-dave-brailsford-report-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

tldr=Brailsford must go
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

16 Mar 2018 13:57

ebandit wrote:JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L


You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2018 14:02

thehog wrote:
ebandit wrote:JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L


You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?


According to you, he was doped by Sky, resulting in ABP violation (EPO) and yet he refused (legal) Tramadol.

Seems a confused young man.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2018 15:45

macbindle wrote:
thehog wrote:
ebandit wrote:JTL was badly supported by team sky...how come he never squealed like a.......?

Mark L


You do realised JTL has provided significant testimony to UKAD and CMS from his take at Sky, yes? He also outlined the use of Tramandol (which he refused) at the Worlds in 2012 to the BBC

Do research anything before you type it?


According to you, he was doped by Sky, resulting in ABP violation (EPO) and yet he refused (legal) Tramadol.

Seems a confused young man.


No. That’s not what I said. His ABP was spread across his time at Endura, British Cycling and Sky. Aportioning the blame solely at Endura would not be reasonable.
User avatar thehog
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Re: Re:

16 Mar 2018 16:00

Oh ok.

Looks like you've changed your mind since you made all these posts...

thehog wrote:
TailWindHome wrote:Was the lack of internal testing done by Sky on JTL before signing him not one of the things they were getting kicked for?


Alcohol testing? :rolleyes:

I prefer to stick to the facts. He was doped to the eyeballs under BC/Brailsford and training with Sky for most of that year.

This is most concerning. I'm sure David Walsh will get to the bottom of it :rolleyes:


thehog wrote:
poupou wrote:What kind of team would hire a rider without looking at his blood profile today?

No chance that Sky wasn't aware.


I think more to the point; how did he dope for the WCs in Italy without Brailford knowing. Unless Brailsford doped him.

I don't imagine JTL transported his EPO to Italy nor took it prior to leaving.


thehog wrote:
thehog wrote:http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/anti-doping-roundup

Doesn't sound like Garmin's testing amounted to much. They were about to sign off one test?


Thinking it about it some more.... Vaughters is hardly the bastion of truth to be honest. I'm leaning towards believing Smith on this one. Only because Vaughters has a history or only telling half the story.

I'm still on the side that Sky doped JTL or at the very least knew he was doping and didn't care. But Brailsford is a piece of work. Nothing surprises me with him.


thehog wrote:[url]http://road.cc/content/news/119640-jonathan-tiernan-locke-says-delay-bio-passport-hearing-isn’t-his-fault[/url]

It was after that Tour of Britain win that Tiernan-Locke, then riding for Endura Racing, first began undergoing regular blood testing. Endura insists that in the period in question he was training under Sky’s supervision before joining them.


Interesting quote here from Endura that JTL was under Sky's "supervision" during the alleged doping.

Find it hard how JTL would have doped alone whilst training with Sky. Let's hope the real story comes out.
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

16 Mar 2018 18:26

I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts :cool: TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars :cool:

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts :)
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

16 Mar 2018 18:35

thehog wrote:I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts :cool: TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars :cool:

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts :)


some spend their time on old posts, some spend their time on old faxes. it´s a hobby at the end of the day
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16 Mar 2018 18:35

thehog wrote:I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts :cool: TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars :cool:

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts :)



Just did a search with you as author and the terms "JTL Sky Doping". Took me about 90 seconds to s
parse and quote. There may well be more.

Don't read bikeradar forums ever, occasionally read the journo output. Is that permissible?

So as I said, according to you, Sky doped him but he refused Tramadol. Seems unlikely, No?

It's no biggie. I'm broadly in agreement with most of what you post. Just don't like it when you are a bit disingenuous, that's all. Puts me off reading these threads.

After all, it is hardly necessary to exaggerate in these circumstances, is it?
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Re:

16 Mar 2018 19:15

macbindle wrote:
thehog wrote:I forgot the bikeradar fan club spend all their time reviewing old posts :cool: TailWindHome is a blast from the last, don’t see those guys around since Sky were proven to be dopers and liars :cool:

My position remains the same. It is indeed possible that he doped at all three entities and not Endura alone. It really is that simple not matter how much time you want to spend digging through old posts :)



Just did a search with you as author and the terms "JTL Sky Doping". Took me about 90 seconds to s
parse and quote. There may well be more.

Don't read bikeradar forums ever, occasionally read the journo output. Is that permissible?

So as I said, according to you, Sky doped him but he refused Tramadol. Seems unlikely, No?

It's no biggie. I'm broadly in agreement with most of what you post. Just don't like it when you are a bit disingenuous, that's all. Puts me off reading these threads.

After all, it is hardly necessary to exaggerate in these circumstances, is it?


I’m sure it took you longer than 90 seconds but I do appreciate the effort you went to. Don’t be put off please.

JTL said to BBC that he was offered Tramadol at the worlds and refused it. Said he gave his testimony to UKAD. Not sure there’s anything disingenuous with that statement.
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16 Mar 2018 19:29

Accepted. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent.
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

16 Mar 2018 19:50

The life and times of JTL:

Tiernan-Locke also revealed that the Great Britain team, at the 2012 World Championships, offered riders Tramadol "freely around," but he did not take it. "I wasn't in any pain so I didn't need to take it, and that was offered freely around. It just didn't sit well with me at the time. I thought, 'I'm not in any pain', why would I want a painkiller?'"



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-sky-rider-tiernan-locke-says-great-britain-offered-tramadol-freely/
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16 Mar 2018 20:00

that took a long time to get back to...JTL had little to say about team sky

...............tramadol?

so if team sky were looking after JTL's doping...how come team sky doctors did not keep
their 'star'...............................straight?

Mark L
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16 Mar 2018 20:43

So Froome is clean, because he got caught. Yep
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16 Mar 2018 20:47

JTL Was a mule. Only difference between him and Froome is the latter accidently almost won the TDF at a moment the winner only won because of politics.
It's absurd.
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22 Mar 2018 10:52

Interesting to compare Brailsfraud clinging on at Team Sky in the face of widespread calls for him to be sacked or resign with other scandals currently rumbling on:

- Cambridge Analytica's CEO has been suspended after (with delightful irony) being caught on a hidden camera offering a menu of dirty tricks to an undercover journalist

- The Weinstein Company has filed for bankruptcy and has announced that the many individuals who were paid to sign NDAs will be released from their contractual obligations to remain silent

In the context of Cambridge Analytica's CEO being suspended, it is remarkable that Team Sky's board have just given Brailsfraud an employment contract rather than suspending or sacking him

In the context of the Weinstein Company releasing counter-parties from NDAs, this explains why Team Sky's board are being so spineless in not suspending or sacking him - they know that if Brailsfraud goes the team will most likely fold, and if that happens those under NDAs will be able to speak out. At that point the whole house of cards comes crashing down

Echoes of British Cycling's board knowing about Brailsfraud/Sutton's culture of fear management style in 2012, suppressing Peter King's report and so being complicit in those bad behaviours continuing for another Olympic cycle
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Re:

31 Mar 2018 03:35

Wiggo's Package wrote:Interesting to compare Brailsfraud clinging on at Team Sky in the face of widespread calls for him to be sacked or resign with other scandals currently rumbling on
Jean-René Bernaudeau (manager for Direct Énergie), says Dave Brailsford is "...juridically, passable. But morally, a lost cause."

https://www.eurosport.fr/cyclisme/finalement-transmis-au-tribunal-antidopage-le-cas-froome-a-peu-de-chances-d-etre-regle-pour-le-tour_sto6695148/story.shtml

"Team Sky is in a process of optimization, so they've got stuff to do. But, today, is it really necessary to be technically correct, but morally wrong? The sport is a business ... if my sponsor had this case right now, they would not be happy at all. And I think Froome needs to sort out this problem, considering the damage that he could cause. It's not the technicality that makes something right, that is worthless to me. Don't forget this, and the public ought to know, that they themselves are in power... I think today, the public have the right to blame him... what I can't stand is, his actual behavior, and Dave Brailsford, who supports him, is juridically, passable. But morally, a lost cause."

The Eurosport Bistrot Vélo has had at least three French team managers appear in the mini-interviews to gauge their opinion on the Froome case ... Fortunéo, Cofidis, and now Direct Énergie as well. Major cycling team which still has to face Sky and Brailsford for the foreseeable future, and the harshest comments yet on Brailsford
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31 Mar 2018 04:15

Jean-René Bernaudeau?

 L'Équipe 17 August 1982 : « Je considère les contrôles dans les critériums comme une atteinte à la liberté du travail. »

"I consider doping controls at the criteriums as an attack on working freedom"

Some say that duplicity is a French national pastime. ;)

I'd just say that cycling hasn't changed that much in 36 years. Brailsford fits in just nicely.
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31 Mar 2018 05:21

So where is Tour Racing Limited's Knight of the Realm? Awfully quiet ...
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

31 Mar 2018 05:43

macbindle wrote:Jean-René Bernaudeau? L'Équipe 17 August 1982 : « Je considère les contrôles dans les critériums comme une atteinte à la liberté du travail. » "I consider doping controls at the criteriums as an attack on working freedom"
Some say that duplicity is a French national pastime. ;)
I'd just say that cycling hasn't changed that much in 36 years. Brailsford fits in just nicely.

Touché, Jean-René ...
Found this quoted on Cyclisme-Dopage.com, they cite two sources, Sprint International and L'Equipe
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/dossierdefond/anticontroles.htm
En 1982, au Critérium de Callac, accompagné de 4 autres coureurs et soutenu par l'UNCP (Union Nationale des Cyclistes Professionnels), il refuse de se soumettre au contrôle antidopage.
Source : Sprint International n°2984 - octobre 1982

Pour s'expliquer, il déclare : "Je considère les contrôles dans les critériums comme une atteinte à la liberté du travail." Source : L'Equipe 17/08/1982
"In 1982, at the Critérium de Callac, [Bernaudeau], accompanied by four other riders, and supported by the Union Nationale des Cyclistes Professionnels, refused to submit to antidoping testing. To explain himself, he stated "I consider doping controls in criteriums to be an attack on the right to work". So, not "working freedom", in the sense that he personally couldn't be bothered with doping tests, but "the right to work" in a constitutional sense. And the cycling union itself opposed the testing, so these five guys protested the event. By that logic, Froome is just exercising his right to work, and big hypocrisy in Bernaudeau statements this week, if he previously wanted there to be no antidoping in sport at all. Hard to reconcile

The Critérium de Callac was raced in Bretagne from 1946 - 1999, with many famous winners, especially after it became invitational in the 1960s. And in the results of the 1981 edition, Bernaudeau finished 2nd place.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crit%C3%A9rium_de_Callac
Last edited by ClassicomanoLuigi on 31 Mar 2018 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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