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Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

11 Jul 2018 09:29

in fact...he's probably got at least something in common with SDB...as SDB spluttered "who??????" as well :D
gillan1969
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11 Jul 2018 10:14

Listening to Jeremy Whittle on Bespoke who said he went round speaking to a few team managers asking for their thoughts on what Brailsford said and his opinion was they were happy at last someone is standing up to Lappartient. Whittle claimed team managers he spoke to haven't been particularly happy with Lappartient so far. It's discussed in the Time trials and tour tribulations podcast.
samhocking
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Re:

11 Jul 2018 10:59

samhocking wrote:Listening to Jeremy Whittle on Bespoke who said he went round speaking to a few team managers asking for their thoughts on what Brailsford said and his opinion was they were happy at last someone is standing up to Lappartient. Whittle claimed team managers he spoke to haven't been particularly happy with Lappartient so far. It's discussed in the Time trials and tour tribulations podcast.


And quotes none by name. More conspiracy theories from the Sam Sky factory :cool:
User avatar thehog
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11 Jul 2018 11:15

Just discussing what Jeremy Whittle reported Hog. You can make your own mind up from the Time trials and tour tribulations podcast. He doesn't say what teams, just that he asked several team managers. Must you attack every post with the presumption you do and turn it into personal attack? Why not debate why what Jeremy Whittle said can't be correct perhaps?
samhocking
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Re:

11 Jul 2018 11:21

samhocking wrote:Just discussing what Jeremy Whittle reported Hog. You can make your own mind up from the Time trials and tour tribulations podcast. He doesn't say what teams, just that he asked several team managers. Must you attack every post with the presumption you do and turn it into personal attack? Why not debate why what Jeremy Whittle said can't be correct perhaps?


Sure and the British Cycling media have done such a fine job reporting cycling and Sky and all the team managers love SDB even though he was prepared to throw them under a bus to avoid the Jiffy bag story :cool:

Next up you’ll be telling us David Walsh is impartial :p
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 11:41

brownbobby wrote:@nighttrain99

Not sure about 'fair analysis'.....but interesting

Probably hard to believe looking back now; I don't hate them like many people do, but i've never really considered myself a Sky supporter, certainly not to the point that i'm rooting for them to win races. I stopped worshipping sports stars many years ago, but there's a long list of riders who i enjoy watching ahead of Froome....but i'll certainly put my hands up to being a Froome sympathiser now, the Clinic has made me that way.

See, whilst there's some solid circumstantial evidence and theories that point towards the probability that he's at it big style, there's also masses of BS piled on top of the plausible stuff that i enjoy challenging and debating.

No one pays me to come on here (honest!) When there's no real investment in the outcome, i find it much more interesting and stimulating to be the underdog in a debate, rather than just wallowing in the glow of group consensus. Debating on behalf of Froome in this particular forum certainly puts me in the position of underdog.I like that.

PS. i prefer Brownbobby.....Bobby Browne just doesnt have the same meaning for me ;)


I apologize for the error, Brownbobby. It was unintentional and not meant to be a slight.
Nighttrain99
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 12:19

Nighttrain99 wrote:
brownbobby wrote:@nighttrain99

Not sure about 'fair analysis'.....but interesting

Probably hard to believe looking back now; I don't hate them like many people do, but i've never really considered myself a Sky supporter, certainly not to the point that i'm rooting for them to win races. I stopped worshipping sports stars many years ago, but there's a long list of riders who i enjoy watching ahead of Froome....but i'll certainly put my hands up to being a Froome sympathiser now, the Clinic has made me that way.

See, whilst there's some solid circumstantial evidence and theories that point towards the probability that he's at it big style, there's also masses of BS piled on top of the plausible stuff that i enjoy challenging and debating.

No one pays me to come on here (honest!) When there's no real investment in the outcome, i find it much more interesting and stimulating to be the underdog in a debate, rather than just wallowing in the glow of group consensus. Debating on behalf of Froome in this particular forum certainly puts me in the position of underdog.I like that.

PS. i prefer Brownbobby.....Bobby Browne just doesnt have the same meaning for me ;)


I apologize for the error, Brownbobby. It was unintentional and not meant to be a slight.


Ha ha...no offence taken. Until i remembered that Bobby Brown was that rubbish singer from the 80's/90's who corrupted Whitney Houston :lol:
brownbobby
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11 Jul 2018 12:26

Check the Frank Zappa song 'Bobby Brown' before you forgive. It's NSFW by the way.
Mayo from Mayo
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Re:

11 Jul 2018 12:34

Mayo from Mayo wrote:Check the Frank Zappa song 'Bobby Brown' before you forgive. It's NSFW by the way.


Oh jesus..i just googled the lyrics :redface:

I'm going to give @nighttrain99 the benefit of the doubt and presume/hope that song wasn't in his mind when he rechristened me :eek:
brownbobby
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 13:28

brownbobby wrote:
Mayo from Mayo wrote:Check the Frank Zappa song 'Bobby Brown' before you forgive. It's NSFW by the way.


Oh jesus..i just googled the lyrics :redface:

I'm going to give @nighttrain99 the benefit of the doubt and presume/hope that song wasn't in his mind when he rechristened me :eek:

:lol: Just now is the first time I’ve heard the Zappa song. He was quite the lyrical poet, eh? I did not like Bobby Brown’s music either but did enjoy some Rick James tunes.
Nighttrain99
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 16:07

Nighttrain99:

I'm not going to say directly in the clinic because there's never any balanced discussion, but in terms of Brailsford's anger, consider the following statements all said within context of Froome's exoneration from Lappartient.

Lappartient on Ulissi and Pettachi ADRVs
"I must emphasise that each of the relevant athletes had access to a fair hearing as provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR."

Lappartient on UCI's anti-doping credibility generally:
"Everyone will have the same treatment, for sure. In the UCI there are no exceptions, everyone gets the same treatment," Lappartient insisted.

Lappartient on Froome's exoneration provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR
"If you have more money, you can afford more lawyers and more experts. This can sometimes help you to prove you are not guilty"

That is what Brailsford is angry about and if that's not town mayor bias, what is, regardless of Brailsford's numptyness. Lappartients handing is not impartial and his comments make UCI look weak and complacent and unfocused on what exactly they are meant to be and how Lappartient should rise above personal bias.


Talk about discussions lacking balance. What is in any of those quotes that shows bias, that shows Lappartient is not impartial? Making that claim shows incredible lack of balance on your part.

samhocking wrote:
And UCI accepted that. As they accepted it, Lappartient can't then claim money bought Froomes innocence while maintaining UCI under Lappartient is credible and requesting fans to 'please still believe in cycling'. That is a copout, especially while maintaining other similar cases were dealt with properly


He didn’t claim money bought Froome’s innocence. Did you read the quote? He said money helped him prove that he was not guilty. Repeat: "help you to prove you are not guilty". Those are his words. How can someone prove he wasn't guilty, with or without money, unless he wasn't guilty? Lappartient in that quote is saying that in his opinion Froome was not guilty, but without money he might not have been able to prove it. What you’re falsely attributing to him is that he said Froome was guilty, but money bought his innocence. Not helped him prove what he actually was, but bought something he might not have been. "Money bought his innocence" is not the same as "money helps you to prove you are not guilty." I have no idea whether you and nighttrain aren't perceptive enough to see the difference, or whether you intentionally twisted the words to make Lappartient look bad, because you have a pre-existing bias that he is bad. Maybe both.
Merckx index
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 16:48

Merckx index wrote:Nighttrain99:

I'm not going to say directly in the clinic because there's never any balanced discussion, but in terms of Brailsford's anger, consider the following statements all said within context of Froome's exoneration from Lappartient.

Lappartient on Ulissi and Pettachi ADRVs
"I must emphasise that each of the relevant athletes had access to a fair hearing as provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR."

Lappartient on UCI's anti-doping credibility generally:
"Everyone will have the same treatment, for sure. In the UCI there are no exceptions, everyone gets the same treatment," Lappartient insisted.

Lappartient on Froome's exoneration provided for by the WADA Code and the UCI ADR
"If you have more money, you can afford more lawyers and more experts. This can sometimes help you to prove you are not guilty"

That is what Brailsford is angry about and if that's not town mayor bias, what is, regardless of Brailsford's numptyness. Lappartients handing is not impartial and his comments make UCI look weak and complacent and unfocused on what exactly they are meant to be and how Lappartient should rise above personal bias.


Talk about discussions lacking balance. What is in any of those quotes that shows bias, that shows Lappartient is not impartial? Making that claim shows incredible lack of balance on your part.

samhocking wrote:
And UCI accepted that. As they accepted it, Lappartient can't then claim money bought Froomes innocence while maintaining UCI under Lappartient is credible and requesting fans to 'please still believe in cycling'. That is a copout, especially while maintaining other similar cases were dealt with properly


He didn’t claim money bought Froome’s innocence. Did you read the quote? He said money helped him prove that he was not guilty. Repeat: "help you to prove you are not guilty". Those are his words. How can someone prove he wasn't guilty, with or without money, unless he wasn't guilty? Lappartient in that quote is saying that in his opinion Froome was not guilty, but without money he might not have been able to prove it. What you’re falsely attributing to him is that he said Froome was guilty, but money bought his innocence. Not helped him prove what he actually was, but bought something he might not have been. "Money bought his innocence" is not the same as "money helps you to prove you are not guilty." I have no idea whether you and nighttrain aren't perceptive enough to see the difference, or whether you intentionally twisted the words to make Lappartient look bad, because you have a pre-existing bias that he is bad. Maybe both.


You post some of the most useful info here. Your perception of anything I’ve offered on this subject is way off, though. I’ve clearly stated my opinion of Brailsford is that of an arrogant man who used a public form to disgrace the president of the UCI. I’ve also said that I enjoy the spectacle of it all to the point of wishing Sky would accept and own their role of villain. Rowe tearing down a banner is another example. I don’t condone his or Brailsford’s actions but as a viewer of sports I can appreciate top shelf bad guy behavior as long as no one cheats or is injured.
Nighttrain99
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11 Jul 2018 17:07

From Guardian today:

For Team Sky, their safety during the Tour remains a concern, according to Brailsford. “We’ve got young women in the team that come and support the VIPs, and normally they drive around on their own, but I can’t allow that to happen in this race,” he said. “I want to make sure we get this on the agenda so the people with influence, who are mainly the French, can influence things like the crowds.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jul/11/tour-de-france-peter-sagan-wins-stage-five-simmering-team-sky-tension

How to make friends and influence people!
Mayo from Mayo
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Re: Dave Brailsford - cycling genius

11 Jul 2018 17:20

Brailsford doing himself proud :cool:

Froome’s team-mate, Luke Rowe, was subsequently identified as the Sky rider involved. Asked immediately afterwards by reporters if he had been the rider concerned, Rowe denied any involvement. “I don’t know what you mean, it wasn’t me,” he said.

“The rider came over, quickly grabbed my placard and threw it down,” French fan, Didier Bregardes from Lorient, said. “I’ve nothing against Froome or the riders, but it’s the way the manager of Sky, Brailsford, dealt with it. It’s insulting what Brailsford said about Lappartient, about him being a mayor of a small town.”
User avatar thehog
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11 Jul 2018 17:28

If you've gone down the rabbit hole of obsessional fanatical hatred that is common currency in the Clinic, then you won't even be able to put yourself in Brailsford's shoes and consider what he is actually saying at any given moment without thinking that it is part of some nefarious master plan of deceit.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 17:40

You post some of the most useful info here. Your perception of anything I’ve offered on this subject is way off, though. I’ve clearly stated my opinion of Brailsford is that of an arrogant man who used a public form to disgrace the president of the UCI. I’ve also said that I enjoy the spectacle of it all to the point of wishing Sky would accept and own their role of villain. Rowe tearing down a banner is another example. I don’t condone his or Brailsford’s actions but as a viewer of sports I can appreciate top shelf bad guy behavior as long as no one cheats or is injured.


The confusion may have stemmed from one of your quotations on the previous page - the quotation function made it look like Sam's words were attributed to you. Reading back far enough, one can see it was Sam's words, not yours, but might not be evident to someone not reading back far enough.
Soggy Chamois
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Re:

11 Jul 2018 19:08

macbindle wrote:If you've gone down the rabbit hole of obsessional fanatical hatred that is common currency in the Clinic, then you won't even be able to put yourself in Brailsford's shoes and consider what he is actually saying at any given moment without thinking that it is part of some nefarious master plan of deceit.


SDB reaps what he sows...of course, what evidence is there of 'young women' being at risk????

If you can provide some then I might not come to conclusion SDB is inferring they are. Do you think they are and on what basis?
gillan1969
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11 Jul 2018 19:08

yaco wrote:Lappartient talks too much - Sometimes silence is golden.



reply sounded like a breton mayor.....kinda out of their depth

Mark L
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Re: Re:

11 Jul 2018 19:11

gillan1969 wrote:
macbindle wrote:If you've gone down the rabbit hole of obsessional fanatical hatred that is common currency in the Clinic, then you won't even be able to put yourself in Brailsford's shoes and consider what he is actually saying at any given moment without thinking that it is part of some nefarious master plan of deceit.


SDB reaps what he sows...of course, what evidence is there of 'young women' being at risk????

If you can provide some then I might not come to conclusion SDB is inferring they are. Do you think they are and on what basis?


You know very well it would be impossible to find evidence of that from my armchair
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re:

11 Jul 2018 19:14

ebandit wrote:
yaco wrote:Lappartient talks too much - Sometimes silence is golden.



reply sounded like a breton mayor.....kinda out of their depth

Mark L


I think all the UCI presidents have been out of their depth when it comes to a lot of things in sport.
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