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Fabio Aru 6.5w/kg

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Fabio Aru 6.5w/kg

15 Apr 2015 14:15

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana- ... ro-ditalia

“In 2014 Aru used his time trial bike during his rest days to work on his position. Now we’ve dedicated the third day of every triple block to his position plus specific time trial work at race speed. His numbers are better, Fabio has an extra 5-10 watts at threshold, that means he’s at about 395-400 watts with a weight of 61.5kg.”
User avatar the sceptic
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15 Apr 2015 14:35

Unless threshold is a brief period of time isn't this ratio in the eyebrow raising territory?
Nick C.
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15 Apr 2015 14:36

Putting up numbers like that just means he didn't have breakfast or stop for coffee. Training = beating lazy dopers.....;)
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15 Apr 2015 15:00

Question: when do you include bike and equipment weight when calculating W/kg, and when not? I am so confused :p

anyway, what I think is more amazing is his weight :eek:
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15 Apr 2015 15:05

That poster was right, the one who said Britain/Norway need a good doping scandal to wake them up and get their heads out of the sand. Italian cycling fans prove it. Where are the Aru-bots? And Sky-bots wonder why we don't have lengthy Astana threads...

anyway, you wonder why they put these numbers out. I'm all for, but it doesn't seem the logical thing to do now with all the focus on Astana, especially on Nibali and Aru.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 15:07

LaFlorecita wrote:Question: when do you include bike and equipment weight when calculating W/kg, and when not? I am so confused :p

anyway, what I think is more amazing is his weight :eek:

indeed, for a 1.81 tall guy...that's skinny.
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15 Apr 2015 15:19

Isn't this exactly what Wiggo did at the start of 2012 to explain why he was about to win all the TTs, something about the gears and cadence and something? Kerrison crunched the numbers and studied Tony Martin and BAM.
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15 Apr 2015 15:20

ie get out ahead of the TT ability turn around and "explain" it. preempt the WTF looks and thoughts.

stupid posting time limits. stupid. stupid. stupid. stupid. stupid.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 16:53

Dear Wiggo wrote:ie get out ahead of the TT ability turn around and "explain" it. preempt the WTF looks and thoughts.

stupid posting time limits. stupid. stupid. stupid. stupid. stupid.


I like that Astana are so blatant with their doping that they don't even try to hide that their riders are putting up obvious doped numbers.

Sounds like it's going to be a fun year
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15 Apr 2015 16:53

Slongo did the mistake of telling Aru's weight. Nobody does that.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 17:06

Rollthedice wrote:Slongo did the mistake of telling Aru's weight. Nobody does that.

His weight isn't a big secret, it has been mentioned quite a few time before in different interviews. I don't think his weight should surprise anyone, just look at his arms. I'm 1,83m tall and 65kg heavy when I'm in top shape, but compared to someone like Aru my upper body is way more muscular.
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15 Apr 2015 19:04

The numbers are being compared wrong. The famous Ferrari numbers are climbing power estimates during a grand tour, Aru's stats are not during a grand tour.

I have no clue if he's clean. He has a more reasonable caeeer trajectory than a Froome.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 19:30

DirtyWorks wrote:The numbers are being compared wrong. The famous Ferrari numbers are climbing power estimates during a grand tour, Aru's stats are not during a grand tour.

I have no clue if he's clean. He has a more reasonable caeeer trajectory than a Froome.


Mind you, if he's doing those numbers for an hour during a 3-4 hour ride after doing a 5 then 7 hour ride on the previous 2 days, up at Teide (ie altitude) it's getting pretty darn close to GT type performances.

In the Tour your GC guy is going to be doing 200W average in the peloton as a protected rider. On a training ride like they are doing here, more like 240-270, depending on session goals, etc. ie I think it's a pretty good indication.

2012 was 453W for 64 minutes from an alleged 69kg TdF winner.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 22:16

Nick C. wrote:Unless threshold is a brief period of time isn't this ratio in the eyebrow raising territory?

Threshold is such an abused term, who can tell what they mean?

IOW without actually being told how their threshold was derived, it really doesn't tell us much.
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Re:

15 Apr 2015 23:02

LaFlorecita wrote:Question: when do you include bike and equipment weight when calculating W/kg, and when not? I am so confused :p

anyway, what I think is more amazing is his weight :eek:

When assessing physiological capability, then we talk about a rider's power and body mass.

When assessing the physics of cycling (e.g. assessing climbing speed) then we need to consider all mass of the system.

If you use the latter (i.e. physics) to determine the former (i.e. physiological capability), then of course you need to know both the body mass of the rider and of the total system. And of course if you want to predict the latter from the former, you also need to know the total system mass.


Physics fun:
As a minor aside, we really should distinguish between the terms weight and mass, because weight is actually a force measure and not a mass measure and as such weight doesn't technically apply to all parts of the cycling physics calculations, e.g. kinetic energy and acceleration where it's mass that matters. Weight really only applies when talking about forces or energy potential resulting from or due to gravity.

We get away with it of course because by definition on this planet, weight and mass have a an almost unity conversion factor of 1-g (acceleration due to gravity), although the conversion factor is not truly a constant but varies due to lots of reasons (and on the Earth's surface is a mostly function of latitude and altitude).

For example the mass of an object at sea level and at 3000 metres altitude would be the same, but you'd weigh 0.1% less at that altitude because the force of gravity is a little less than at sea level (it varies in a quadratic manner). You also weigh more at the poles than at the equator by about 0.5% (it varies with latitude in a sinusoidal manner).

There are formula to estimate the variations in the force of gravity at different locations based on height above sea level and latitude.

e.g. an object with the same mass weighs nearly half a percent more in Copenhagen than it does in Mexico City or Singapore. Talk about a double whammy when you eat a danish :)

Half a percent is small for many considerations, but depending on the sort of things you are trying to tease out of data, or the level of estimate precision you are attempting, 0.5% may not be insignificant
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Re: Re:

16 Apr 2015 00:21

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Nick C. wrote:Unless threshold is a brief period of time isn't this ratio in the eyebrow raising territory?

Threshold is such an abused term, who can tell what they mean?

IOW without actually being told how their threshold was derived, it really doesn't tell us much.


Snort.
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Re: Fabio Aru 6.5w/kg

16 Apr 2015 03:37

http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" rel="nofollow

I think I was capable of producing 450 to 460 watts. The truth is, even at the Tour de France, my Tour de France climb times up l'Alpe d'Huez yielded a wattage of around 380 and 390. That was the historic norm for Hinault and myself. You've got times going back many, many years. But what was learned recently, in the last 5 years, was that when you start the Tour de France, you start with a normal hematocrit of, say, 45 percent. By the time you finish, it's probably down 10 or 15 percent. Which means my VO2 Max dropped 10 or 15 percent. So that's why I was never producing the same wattage. And then there a lot of other factors that help performance if you've recovered. My last time trial in '89, I averaged about 420, 430 watts, which would match or be slightly down from what my real VO2 Max was.
What did he weigh? 63? 64?
il Mito wrote:“I’m in pension, I don’t give a **** about training,” Ferrari said. “They are all strong without me. Did you see the Tour de France?”
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16 Apr 2015 03:48

Does VO2max depend on Hgb concentration (Hgb / BV) or Hgb mass (total Hgb)? Because if it's Hgb mass, your VO2 max won't change as much as he is claiming.

This says: http://www.extremephysiolmed.com/content/pdf/2046-7648-2-33.pdf
As a result, the relationship between VO2max and tHb-mass is stronger than that observed between VO2max and [Hb] or BV.


Quoting LeMond in this instance makes sense, but what he says does not. 420W would not have been his VO2max, but his FTP.
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16 Apr 2015 05:57

Thanks Alex! :)
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Re: Re:

16 Apr 2015 09:05

But did anyone state that those numbers were from an hour during a 3-4 hour ride after doing a 5 then 7 hour ride on the previous 2 days, up at Teide (ie altitude)? Prolly not. Training session outputs, all-time mean maximal records and performances at the third week of GT are all quite different story. Small group workouts are different than racing gruppetto in a GT +220K slightly undulating sprinters stage, where it's possible to non-pedal 2 hrs and have an avg power like 180-190w meaning recovery day.
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