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The most alien jumps ever

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Re: Re:

05 Feb 2016 14:16

jens_attacks wrote:
ebandit wrote:.....aye! 3 riders to trust.............................good post jens...

Mark L


That was my point. Biologics still reign supreme, mechanical is shiit.


There have always been phenomenal riders, therefore nobody uses a motor. Even though you've seen it with your own eyes (Femke). Got it. I don't think it's rational, but hey. Knock yourself out.

John Swanson
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Re: Re:

05 Feb 2016 15:24

ScienceIsCool wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:
ebandit wrote:.....aye! 3 riders to trust.............................good post jens...

Mark L


That was my point. Biologics still reign supreme, mechanical is shiit.


There have always been phenomenal riders, therefore nobody uses a motor. Even though you've seen it with your own eyes (Femke). Got it. I don't think it's rational, but hey. Knock yourself out.

John Swanson


i already said that i believe someone might have used it. even in the bigger races.
but it would be a desperate rider who would never reach the same results ever again after 2010. when controls and media talking began. also i believe that he did it on his own.
imo, for guys like froome,cancellara,contador you have to look in another place to find their engines. and yes, i don't believe for a second than anyone of those ever used mechanical doping. could i be wrong? of course.
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Re: Re:

05 Feb 2016 15:57

jens_attacks wrote:...
i already said that i believe someone might have used it. even in the bigger races.
but it would be a desperate rider who would never reach the same results ever again after 2010. when controls and media talking began. also i believe that he did it on his own.
imo, for guys like froome,cancellara,contador you have to look in another place to find their engines. and yes, i don't believe for a second than anyone of those ever used mechanical doping. could i be wrong? of course.

anno 2016 you gotta be kidding still using that as a serious argument.

more to the point, you can dope all you want, and have the strongest biological engine ever, you still gotta move your upper body from left to right and get out of the saddle if you want to engage said engine and turn power into the highest possible speed on a 19% climb.
No quantity of doping can explain what Cance did there.
A strictly PED-doped rider may go faster up the Muur than Cance did, but will never ever do so in-saddle with hardly any upper body movement.
sniper
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05 Feb 2016 22:58

The Froome 2013 attack overlaid with power and HR data screams motorized to me. Just unnatural looking and the data supports it.
james2475
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06 Feb 2016 01:23

As long as we're talking 2011 E3, the most memorable part for me was Cancellara catching and blowing by the breakaway group (of favorites, not early-break no-hopers) like they're riding beach cruisers. A wide open 6 lane highway and he rides a sprinting GVA off his wheel, if memory serves. It looks like what happens when I'm trying to draft a car and it decides to just accelerate. Can't find the clip unfortunately.
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Re:

06 Feb 2016 02:29

proffate wrote:As long as we're talking 2011 E3, the most memorable part for me was Cancellara catching and blowing by the breakaway group (of favorites, not early-break no-hopers) like they're riding beach cruisers. A wide open 6 lane highway and he rides a sprinting GVA off his wheel, if memory serves. It looks like what happens when I'm trying to draft a car and it decides to just accelerate. Can't find the clip unfortunately.


That was Haussler, you can find the clip here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SHUWTwPu_LA
burning
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Re: Re:

06 Feb 2016 09:24

burning wrote:
proffate wrote:As long as we're talking 2011 E3, the most memorable part for me was Cancellara catching and blowing by the breakaway group (of favorites, not early-break no-hopers) like they're riding beach cruisers. A wide open 6 lane highway and he rides a sprinting GVA off his wheel, if memory serves. It looks like what happens when I'm trying to draft a car and it decides to just accelerate. Can't find the clip unfortunately.


That was Haussler, you can find the clip here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SHUWTwPu_LA

yeah, this is the footage we looked at on the previous page, though I previously only looked at the jump at ca. 4:00 into that clip.
Now I've looked at the other jumps in there as well and the sum of it just screams motor.
not pretty.
Note also that earlier in the finale he had a mechanical and he had to make up a lot of distance.

would really be good to have Tienus or anybody in the know looking a bit closer at those finger movements from Cancellara.
It seems he's clicking much more than any of the other riders.
Of course much of it could be gear switching, but it's not always apparent why he would be switching gears and often you see him clicking but his cadence remains steady.
Would love somebody to tell me whether or not that's normal so i can stop looking at it.
sniper
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06 Feb 2016 09:28

@1:36 regular gear shift, i think?
if so, his clicking elsewhere doesn't look anything like that.
sniper
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Re:

07 Feb 2016 20:55

james2475 wrote:The Froome 2013 attack overlaid with power and HR data screams motorized to me. Just unnatural looking and the data supports it.


Maybe i am dead wrong, but since The SRM measures the force coming from the legs of a rider with strain gauges mounted inside the spider of the crank set would not any power from the motor not register on the SRM data? If this is correct then it would be more suspicious if the power is low, which it doesn't seem to be.
dwyatt
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2016 21:04

jens_attacks wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:
ebandit wrote:.....aye! 3 riders to trust.............................good post jens...

Mark L


That was my point. Biologics still reign supreme, mechanical is shiit.


There have always been phenomenal riders, therefore nobody uses a motor. Even though you've seen it with your own eyes (Femke). Got it. I don't think it's rational, but hey. Knock yourself out.

John Swanson


i already said that i believe someone might have used it. even in the bigger races.
but it would be a desperate rider who would never reach the same results ever again after 2010.
so you are saying peter velits used it?
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2016 21:06

dwyatt wrote:
james2475 wrote:The Froome 2013 attack overlaid with power and HR data screams motorized to me. Just unnatural looking and the data supports it.


Maybe i am dead wrong, but since The SRM measures the force coming from the legs of a rider with strain gauges mounted inside the spider of the crank set would not any power from the motor not register on the SRM data? If this is correct then it would be more suspicious if the power is low, which it doesn't seem to be.

Froome's heart rate doesn't go up when he accellerates from 350-ish watt to 650-ish watt.
Kerrison: Our training is much more than just doing intervals at a constant pace for a set amount of time; [some of it] is about being able to handle changes of pace – to go from, say, 350 watts to 650 watts for a few seconds to attack and get a gap on a rider who is trying to follow, then come back down to 350 watts."
...
"As a general rule attacks to drop someone like Contador aren't sustainable because the rider has to attack at such intensity to drop the guy. " http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france

is that possible without heart rate going up? i doubt it. unless you have a motor.
if you add the fact that Froome remained seated, something not even Kerrison could plausibly explain, Froome Ventoux 2013 is a nobrainer.
Last edited by sniper on 07 Feb 2016 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
sniper
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2016 21:10

sniper wrote:
dwyatt wrote:
james2475 wrote:The Froome 2013 attack overlaid with power and HR data screams motorized to me. Just unnatural looking and the data supports it.


Maybe i am dead wrong, but since The SRM measures the force coming from the legs of a rider with strain gauges mounted inside the spider of the crank set would not any power from the motor not register on the SRM data? If this is correct then it would be more suspicious if the power is low, which it doesn't seem to be.

lol, you think if sky use motors it would show on the SRM data?

james2475 is right, the data support it. Froome's heart rate doesn't go up when he accellerates from 350-ish watt to 650-ish watt.




Kerrison: Our training is much more than just doing intervals at a constant pace for a set amount of time; [some of it] is about being able to handle changes of pace – to go from, say, 350 watts to 650 watts for a few seconds to attack and get a gap on a rider who is trying to follow, then come back down to 350 watts."
...
"As a general rule attacks to drop someone like Contador aren't sustainable because the rider has to attack at such intensity to drop the guy. "

not possible without heart rate going up.
unless you have a motor.
if you add the fact that Froome remained seated, something Kerrison could not plausibly explain, Froome Ventoux 2013 is a nobrainer.


That's the oppsosite of what i said? I said the power from the motor would not show up, and thus if he was going away from contador but only showing 400 watts, becuase 200 watts was coming from the motor, that would be suspicious. However when he goes away, his power is shown as very high, so that must be power he is actually putting in at the cranks.

I totally agree his heart rate looks as suspicious anything, it barely moves on any of his attacks.
Last edited by dwyatt on 07 Feb 2016 21:12, edited 1 time in total.
dwyatt
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07 Feb 2016 21:12

ah, apologies, seems i misunderstood.
ok, thanks for clarifying!
edit: i think he attacked only once on the ventoux(?)
the rest was just pacing.
Last edited by sniper on 07 Feb 2016 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
sniper
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Re:

07 Feb 2016 21:14

sniper wrote:ah, apologies, seems i misunderstood.
so what's your take on the heart rate not going up despite going from ca. 350 to 650 watt?


I think its 100% totally suscious and not like anything i've seen from any other human, but i'm not sure it can be explained by motors either, unless they work differently to how i would expect in relation to srm cranks.

What we really need is the data from that climb from contador and quintana
dwyatt
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12 Feb 2016 18:13

Poels acceleration @ 9:25 looked bizarre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wycSTSYFCs8
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12 Feb 2016 21:14

I'm surprised nobody's going back over footage of Gilbert's miracle season of 2011...

John Swanson
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Re: The most alien jumps ever

22 Apr 2016 02:30

So we now have Landa covering no less than 15 attacks all on his own and attacking himself, on the drops!... we may have a new winner;

http://cyclinghub.tv/post.php?id=152


:rolleyes:
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Re: The most alien jumps ever

22 Apr 2016 08:33

thehog wrote:So we now have Landa covering no less than 15 attacks all on his own and attacking himself, on the drops!... we may have a new winner;

http://cyclinghub.tv/post.php?id=152


:rolleyes:

In reality his Alien jump was in last years Giro when he was dragging Aru to 2nd place
This is Cocaine...This is Chloroform...In short we ride on Dynamite!
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Re: Re:

22 Apr 2016 09:03

red_flanders wrote:
sniper wrote:
TourOfTexas wrote:I can't find it, but it was in Roubaix, Cancellara catching a guy in a breakaway who tries to hold his wheel. Canc goes through a couple of corners and accelerates away from the guy while sitting in the saddle. The guy sits up and throws his hands up like "wtf am I supposed to do?".

that was leukemans in 2010.

ca. 6:00 into the next link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7xjsPqHg3o

the hand gesture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTKWh1bLd-k


He's gesticulating about the motorcycle which is pacing Cancellara.


correct.

Leukemans had a flat front tyre and felt he couldn't hold the wheel of Cancellara because of that and because of the motorcycle just in front of Cancellara. So Leukemans was a bit frustrated, waving at the motorcycle and then realizing he got a flat. While he told journalists he would be able to follow Cancellara's wheel on that last stretch of Mons-en-Pevele, he admitted he wasn't sure he would be able to hold his wheel until the finish.
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Re: The most alien jumps ever

22 Apr 2016 13:17

StryderHells wrote:
thehog wrote:So we now have Landa covering no less than 15 attacks all on his own and attacking himself, on the drops!... we may have a new winner;

http://cyclinghub.tv/post.php?id=152


:rolleyes:

In reality his Alien jump was in last years Giro when he was dragging Aru to 2nd place



Brailsford said it wouldn't happen again but you know... drugs and motors! :rolleyes:
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