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Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

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19 Jul 2018 17:59

Pure gold from the pro road racing section. :lol:

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
willbick wrote:Team sky have known that Thomas has the ability to win a GT for years. He's finally got the chance to show it as he's in top form and allowed to ride for himself and has avoided mishap. But I suppose the arrogant keyboard warriors on this forum think they know more about what it takes to win the tour than the team who have won it 5 of last 6 years. Laughable. P.s. 32 is no age at all for modern day endurance athletes

Oh and btw he would have podiumed at least in last year's giro if he hadn't been knocked off by a moto. Was in top form then but didn't get the chance to show it


Amazing how Sky seem to just keep discovering these late career nobodies who were secret Tour winners all along. Even more amazing the succession of marks willing to lap it up and tell us all that there’s nothing surprising about it.

We’ve had the late 20s track rider and second tier prologue specialist who it turns out always had the ability to win GTs. Then we had the late 20s low grade career domestique best known for winning the anatomic jock race and getting thrown out of a Giro for needing a motor vehicle to get to the top of an incline. He also always had the secret ability to win a GTs. Now we have the thirty two year old failed cobbled classics contender who has never come close to even troubling the top 10 of a GT in a dozen previous rides, reaching early middle age as a GT non entity and guess what? Sky knew all along that he was a future GT contender.

I’m thinking of giving “Sir” Dave Brailsford a ring myself, to see if he’ll order a few lab tests for me. After all, I fit the pattern. I’m in my thirties. To the foolish among us I’ve never yet shown any indication that I have capacity to contend for a GT. I would certainly need the help of a motor vehicle to finish a Giro mountain stage. I’ve generally been better at cycling on the flat than uphill, but crucially I’ve never been so good at cycling on the flat that I’m in any danger of winning a cobbled monument or dominating longer TTs. I’ve missed testing myself in the Junior Tour of Wales, but Im pretty sure that I too wouldn’t have been good enough to win it. I could probably do with losing a few kilos too.

All Dave needs to do is provide a contract and a few training plans and I’ll be skipping my way up the Alpe, guiding the last guy to go through the same process behind me. Best of all, there will be an endless supply of slack jawed yokels willing to assure anyone sceptical of my apparent ability that it’s all perfectly normal, expected even. I won’t even have to pay them. They will embarrass themselves for free.
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19 Jul 2018 18:00

I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.
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Re:

19 Jul 2018 18:01

I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
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Re:

19 Jul 2018 18:02

bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.

Nibali, the client of Ferrari, yet Sky who beats him is clean. :rolleyes:
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
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Re:

19 Jul 2018 18:49

bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 19:58

Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?
bigcog
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 20:54

bigcog wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-and-nibali-deny-working-with-ferrari/

Well, he denied but I think the truth is pretty clear.
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 20:55

bigcog wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?


It didn't, but he is.
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 21:06

bigcog wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?


Did you watch the stage and see them slow up or just slow yourself today? And the Nibali / Ferrari link, imagine you never knew :cool:
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 21:13

thehog wrote:
bigcog wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?


Did you watch the stage and see them slow up or just slow yourself today? And the Nibali / Ferrari link, imagine you never knew :cool:



They did slow up but still weren't stellar. I am slow everyday in the eyes of some ;) :lol:
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Re: Re:

19 Jul 2018 21:31

bigcog wrote:
thehog wrote:
bigcog wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
bigcog wrote:I'd be interested to know the times for the last climb. G is riding out of his skin but I think the rest of them aren't that hot. Froome usually drops Nibali like a bad habit.


41:15. It is mentioned in a tweet in the top 100 site. Still outside the top 100 times though (100th is 41:13).

http://www.climbing-records.com/2013/07/all-time-top-100-fastest-rides-on.html


Yep, what I thought nothing special. Froome and Dumo have the giro in their legs.

Nibali is a client of Ferrari ? Didn't know that, when did that become known ?


Did you watch the stage and see them slow up or just slow yourself today? And the Nibali / Ferrari link, imagine you never knew :cool:



They did slow up but still weren't stellar. I am slow everyday in the eyes of some ;) :lol:


They could have gone probably about 30-45sec faster without waiting which would've more or less led to Froome to break his own record. Nothing magical though still.
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Re: Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

19 Jul 2018 22:31

They lost 90 seconds to two minutes. At one point all four were soft pedalling across the Alpe side by side.
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Re:

19 Jul 2018 23:18

Punkan wrote:Think we might get ahead of ourselves here. G hasn't proven that he can hang with best on a real mountain stage with several hard climbs. To me it isn't totally unexpected that G could do something like this on one climb. He is a fairly skinny rider with a great engine. Compare his performance with Gallopin, another rider that weighs around 70 kilos: G beat Gallopin with 21 seconds today. If G is 5th on a stage like stage 12, I start raising some eyebrows.


Let’s not get ahead of ourselves :cool:
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20 Jul 2018 00:30

What it comes down to is this:

I could potentially believe in Wiggins. Froome is a tougher ask, but maybe it's possible to believe. Likewise Thomas. There are ways of arguing/ establishing their legitimacy as clean champions.

But not all three together, in a row, without even a little break, as the dominant climbers in the tdf. In each case, without demonstrating that pedigree before. i.e. each involved a definite transformation.

It's just so completely implausible. Especially when you consider the champions they have thoroughly destroyed - L'avenir winners, the golden era of Colombian climbing talent and everyone in between.
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20 Jul 2018 01:31

Yep, and all three British, riding for the British team that spends MILLIONS hiring non-British riders that have and always have had far moret talent and pedigree but still can't match the level of the post-transformation British boys.
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20 Jul 2018 02:19

Indeed. The company is a British media company after all ~ for all that investment, they need Brits in yellow at the tour. And they get it, every time without fail.
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Re: Re:

20 Jul 2018 03:39

DFA123 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
DFA123 wrote:Ridiculous performance today. Hopefully, he's just doing a Yates and peaking too early - and will crack in the Pyrenees. Imagine though if his first top 10 result in a GT is winning the Tour de France aged 32. Absolutely ludicrous.


he got twice 15th GC at the Tour, as a domestique, and crashing (in 2015)

Thanks for the info. If they are his best results it just shows what a limited GC rider he has always been at Grand Tours. The amount of dross that has managed at least one top 10 over the years is pretty considerable. Thomas has never even been that good.


Come on man, the guy has been a good climber for a number of years (do good performances in one week races not count?); this is not all that surprising. Plus he has focused on the Tour. His two main rivals are coming off the Giro.

The Alp d'Huez times aren't crazy (though admittedly it was a hard stage). Maybe the competition just isn't that great? Porte out, now Nibali. A few other riders a year or two from hitting their peak.
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20 Jul 2018 03:49

alspacka wrote:
DFA123 wrote:
pastronef wrote:magically?
after a 2nd in Suisse GC, a Paris-Nice GC, a domestique role that didnt allow him to go for GC?

He was allowed to go for the GC. He was the 'second card' in 2015-16 whose role was to stay high in the standings. Yet he couldn't do it - he tried to limit his losses, but he had to go so deep just to stay within a few minutes that he ended up cracking big time.

Henao, Poels, Landa, Froome and Nieve all managed to get top 10 GC finishes playing the same domestique role at Sky in recent years. So it was hardly an impossible task. But Thomas wasn't able to do it - because he was nowhere near a good enough climber. Now, two years later, aged 32, he's dropping everyone on multi-mountain Alpine stages of the Tour. It's a ludicrous transformation.


I do understand the scepticism about his transformation (I thought he should specialise for classics till like 2 years ago ffs), but I think just taking his GT results without context is a bit disingenuous. Firstly because he's been well on his way to better results a few times before bad luck/bike handling. Mainly though due to the hierarchical nature of the skytrain. Yes he's ridden a lot of tours, but largely further down the train wrecking himself in valleys and such.
Say hypothetically another one day man/all rounder in Kwiatkowski stops riding classics and focuses entirely on climbing/stage racing, all while keeping his mid train position in the Tour. He won't be getting anything better than top 20. Then, in 2022, at the age Thomas is now, he's given leadership role, would you be surprised to see him leading GC after 12 stages?
Also today's Alpe ascent was extremely slow.


Nice commonsense post.

If one was going to be shocked by Thomas, then the time to be shocked was around 2014/15. Since then he has been competitive against the likes of Contador and Porte on mountain stages. He even stayed with the favourites to the top of PDB in 2015 (it wasn't raced super hard, but still).

Maybe he was once a donkey. But any transformation happened long ago.
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20 Jul 2018 04:12

I think quite a few folks are getting things a bit confused.

On one hand, it ought not to be too shocking that G is doing well. He presented from a far earlier age that he might have the capacity, unlike CF. Not unlike TD, he also suits the narrative that he always had the engine and just had to lose the weight. That's CF's line, but it's completely hokey bs as it relates to Froome :)

On the other hand, G's best performances are really in line with good old George Hincapie's. If Hincapie had won le Tour, it would have been far, far funnier than anything Pharmstrong did. And a jump from 15th to winning is ridiculous.

All of this is a big if though. I still remember being in complete disbelief about Yates and he completely imploded. So it's a bit too early for me to jump into alien ridiculous commentary. It certainly is silly though :P
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Re: Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

20 Jul 2018 05:05

thehog wrote:They lost 90 seconds to two minutes. At one point all four were soft pedalling across the Alpe side by side.

Shite. Nobody anywhere thinks they lost up to 2 mins. Not even the rest if the tin hatters. Admit it, it was a slow climb, it doesn't change anything else but it was slow as ****.
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