Log in:  

Register

Doping In Athletics

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

02 May 2017 13:29

Presumably, all national records will be reset too? Which would mean Coe losing 3 British records that he holds.

Pete
JetSet
Junior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: 22 Jul 2011 00:05
Location: U.K

02 May 2017 13:34

Why all the faux outrage over doping accusations? We're not that naïve - if you've followed high-level sports long enough you know what's going on.
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 878
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

02 May 2017 17:16

Surely, the point of this is that advertisers/broadcasters aren't willing to pay the big bucks if no records are being broken. Easiest way around that is to find an excuse to expunge them all and trouser the extra cash.

Its not like sports administrators haven't done things in the past purely to line their own pockets.
wansteadimp
Junior Member
 
Posts: 244
Joined: 20 Mar 2013 12:16

03 May 2017 03:29

Record book mingling is a shameful attempt at keeping the cake (pretending athletics has been cleans) and eating it too (having world records constantly broken).

The dope fest called sub 2hr mara attempt beckons and here' tucker's take from pacing angle (dope implications have been discussed before). I agree with him that actually breaking the barrier is highly unlikely - the 2.03s are already full retard stuff and done quite recently. Also find it a reasonable guess that a DNF is as likely as the best case scenario, ie 2.02 for kipchoge.

Would be interesting to see the first graph disaggregated for per and post epo eras, split roughly from 1990 or so. But even as it stands, one could hazard a guess that blood doping (refills and epo, say, post 1990)has allowed for a more even pacing strategy than in prior eras.

https://sportsscientists.com/2017/05/sub-2-hour-marathon-attempt-pacing-strategy/

To put a cherry on top:

"Here's a nutty statistic ahead of the #breaking2 attempt: In the 90 fastest winning marathons ever, a 5km segment faster than 14:13 has only been run 10 times. That's 10 out of 720 segments for those 90 race winners. The target pace to break 2 hours this weekend is 14:13 per 5km. They'll have to average for a marathon what has only been done for a single 5km segment ten times in the fastest 90 marathon victories ever."
User avatar meat puppet
Member
 
Posts: 1,858
Joined: 29 May 2011 06:57

03 May 2017 04:03

Suspicious timing regarding the records-four days before the start of the diamond league season. Some free publicity for something that's never going to happen.
idunno
New Member
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 13 Dec 2015 02:19

Re:

03 May 2017 11:52

meat puppet wrote:Record book mingling is a shameful attempt at keeping the cake (pretending athletics has been cleans) and eating it too (having world records constantly broken).

The dope fest called sub 2hr mara attempt beckons and here' tucker's take from pacing angle (dope implications have been discussed before). I agree with him that actually breaking the barrier is highly unlikely - the 2.03s are already full retard stuff and done quite recently. Also find it a reasonable guess that a DNF is as likely as the best case scenario, ie 2.02 for kipchoge.

Would be interesting to see the first graph disaggregated for per and post epo eras, split roughly from 1990 or so. But even as it stands, one could hazard a guess that blood doping (refills and epo, say, post 1990)has allowed for a more even pacing strategy than in prior eras.

https://sportsscientists.com/2017/05/sub-2-hour-marathon-attempt-pacing-strategy/

To put a cherry on top:

"Here's a nutty statistic ahead of the #breaking2 attempt: In the 90 fastest winning marathons ever, a 5km segment faster than 14:13 has only been run 10 times. That's 10 out of 720 segments for those 90 race winners. The target pace to break 2 hours this weekend is 14:13 per 5km. They'll have to average for a marathon what has only been done for a single 5km segment ten times in the fastest 90 marathon victories ever."


Have their hero bolt do the marathon. Eat chicken nuggets before hand like he always does.

He'll break the 2 hrs and we'll know its clean because a) hes tall which is better than doping and b) he doesn't look like schwarzeneger so he must be clean
User avatar The Hitch
Veteran
 
Posts: 28,755
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

03 May 2017 15:31

Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 854
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

03 May 2017 18:04

Happiest about Flo-Jo, especially the 100m

Saddest, Jonathan Edwards and his triple jump. His technique was usually just so spot on. A text book jumper.
User avatar Catwhoorg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,954
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 11:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re:

03 May 2017 19:08

Catwhoorg wrote:Happiest about Flo-Jo, especially the 100m

Saddest, Jonathan Edwards and his triple jump. His technique was usually just so spot on. A text book jumper.


Edwards is omerta through and through. Not disappointed he is losing it.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,133
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

03 May 2017 19:27

The one record that would never be beaten was Marita Koch's 400 metres from 1985 - I always wonder if their was a timing malfunction - Her time was from another planet.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,283
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re: Doping In Athletics

03 May 2017 19:36

I think they should only take away Paula's record, just to see her reaction.

I think they should keep Ben Johnson's record, and give back his gold from Seoul. Just about everyone in that final was doping/was later caught and/or suspended, or have been suspected to, and in the case of Carl Lewis, the man that finished second and later was upgraded to first, several positive tests just that summer alone!
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,883
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re:

03 May 2017 19:44

Singer01 wrote:Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.

One of my ex-clubmates who is still winning medals at the World Masters
and named her only daughter Stefka might be bummed about the women's
high jump...but I'd not be too disappointed if Blanka was given the WR.

There are plenty of Olympic records that would be affected if this change
included Olympic records too...haven't heard/read that it will though.
User avatar oldcrank
Member
 
Posts: 1,467
Joined: 24 Jul 2009 07:16

Re: Re:

04 May 2017 19:33

oldcrank wrote:
Singer01 wrote:Of all the records which may be expunged, which are you most happy about, and which saddens you?

For me it is a tie between the women's 400m and 800m for most happy about, utterly implausible.
Saddest, the men's long jump, whether you think anyone was clean or not, that competition was the athletics version of Lemond v Fignon, utterly compelling.

One of my ex-clubmates who is still winning medals at the World Masters
and named her only daughter Stefka might be bummed about the women's
high jump...but I'd not be too disappointed if Blanka was given the WR.

There are plenty of Olympic records that would be affected if this change
included Olympic records too...haven't heard/read that it will though.te/quote]

You would have to reset Olympic records as you can't have an Olympic Record better than a World Record. In fact you would have to reset just about everything, all area records, championship records, course records, masters records, junior records, anything that comes under the IAAF, at least that's the way I see it.

Pete
JetSet
Junior Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: 22 Jul 2011 00:05
Location: U.K

05 May 2017 07:51

Well the only realistic way you can do this is if everytime you create a test for a new drug you disqualify any records for which you cannot retrospectively test that drug.
hoolaparara
Member
 
Posts: 326
Joined: 15 Mar 2009 00:05

Re: Doping In Athletics

05 May 2017 08:52

I suspect Al Oerter was using steroids in the 1950's (first gold medal 1956). The American sprinters of the 1960's must also be considered suspicious given the symbiotic links between track and field and professional football. Jim Hines (1968 100m gold) was the classic example of this.
buckle
Member
 
Posts: 623
Joined: 23 Jul 2012 17:42

05 May 2017 09:02

There really is no point* in creating a year zero for WRs or ORs.

Testing is still a joke so it is not like those competing now are clean.

The only point I can see is PR, a marketing campaign to give the impression these athletes competing now are clean and this is believable.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,133
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re:

05 May 2017 09:35

Benotti69 wrote:There really is no point* in creating a year zero for WRs or ORs.

Testing is still a joke so it is not like those competing now are clean.

The only point I can see is PR, a marketing campaign to give the impression these athletes competing now are clean and this is believable.


Bang on point.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,518
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: Doping In Athletics

05 May 2017 10:42

Yep.

For me the world record is the fastest a human being has ever gone. Cheating (most of the time) or not.

As much as I do (like anyone with any basic morals) do not like paula, she run that 2.15. That's the fastest anyone went. Others were also doping. Its the world record.
User avatar The Hitch
Veteran
 
Posts: 28,755
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

Re: Doping In Athletics

05 May 2017 14:32

For new generations, more attainable records (with today's WADA code and enforcement) will lure athletes less strongly to the dark side. Some national records I am happy to see go. One in particular set at the dirtiest of OG's, before the 50% rule, before EPO detection. Hardly anyone has come close since. Recently only an unbeatable hermafrodite, dipped under it just slightly. Despite a quarter century of track and shoe development, not to speak of deeply more advanced nutricional and training knowledge. Such records, even if set by a freak of nature rather than the garden variety doper (much more prevalent), is best reset.
New WR attempts can and should be supported by sponsors.

New national, European and world records need to be tested with a multitude of samples, sent to multiple labs. The labs should be a lottery of sorts perhaps. In a age of $1500 Bicoin, surely someone can come up with a reliable randomizer. Records deserve more scrutiny. And back testing. So not just an A and B sample. Not stored in one place. Proper scrutiny.
Cloxxki
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,211
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 14:25

05 May 2017 17:09

Paula Radcliffe in the dailymail now trying to claim that the test results from her marathon record run were faulty. She must have heard JV's excuse about Machine calibration error!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3337824/Paula-Radcliffe-explains-innocence-blood-doping-allegations-says-testing-fault-unusual-results.html

How many times now has she changed her excuse from dehydration, altitude to MCE?

She is as crazy as Armstrong!
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,133
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 70kmph, ahsoe, Crevaison, Dazed and Confused, dusty red roads, pastronef, Red Rick, Tonton, TourOfSardinia, yaco and 67 guests

Back to top