Log in:  

Register

Doping In Athletics

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Doping In Athletics

30 Aug 2017 15:24

The basic problem is, how do you encourage people to tell the truth? You need to protect them from the negative consequences of doing so.

This survey uses a clever strategy to make it happen. By introducing a chance that the answer to the doping question is "yes" whether they are doping or not, individuals can be truthful when asked whether they've been doping without their "yes" necessarily indicating that they've been doping.

Even if anonymity would be compromised and the data would be hacked, seeing in that data that an athlete answered "yes" would not be a confession. Because there's a fixed chance, by design, that the response would be "yes" regardless.

Yet when we want to know the fraction of athletes that dope, we can just subtract the noise probability from the fraction of people saying "yes", and that will be an unbiased estimate of the fraction that dopes, provided this setup makes individuals answer truthfully (More realistically, it merely reduces the bias the downwards bias by reducing, but not eliminating, lying).


The statistical cost of this procedure is that the estimator becomes noisier, but with a large enough sample, that doesn't matter.

In theory, you could do the same thing asking just medallists, but because the sample is much smaller, the noise problem would be worse, and in addition, because the sample is smaller and easily googable and recognisable, it might invite unwelcome public speculation about which individuals, if x% of them dope, are the dopers.

Anticipating this, medallists would be more likely to lie regardless of the setup.
User avatar SeriousSam
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,184
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 00:06
Location: Now here

30 Aug 2017 15:43

Thanks SS, that was my understanding of it. It might work for finalists and medalists if the sample is large enough (not sure how big it has to be), but the incentive to lie and lower the percentage is greater as it's a smaller group, it's defined and easier to point fingers at.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,336
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

30 Aug 2017 17:23

Years ago, the basic premise of these was go into a booth.
Toss a coin/roll a die
Heads answer the question part A (doping or whatever sensitive subject)
Tails answer the question part B (did the coin land on tails)

Things have got a bit more sophisticated and a lot of these are done electronically and automatically.
User avatar Catwhoorg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,912
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 11:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

30 Aug 2017 18:48

I heard the head of ADD (antidoping Denmark) comment on the survey today.

He said the usual stuff:

-Things was bad back then
-Bad leadership back then
-no proper testing back then
-It was to be expected that we would find past issues

It's funny how ,whenever these things come up, it's always a thing of the past.
User avatar mrhender
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,540
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 07:54

30 Aug 2017 19:09

2011 old dirty dopers like Bolt, Rudisha, Farah, not like the clean generation of 2015/2017 of Gatlin, Bolt, Rudisha and Farah.
User avatar Catwhoorg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,912
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 11:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

09 Sep 2017 04:25

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/olympian-fined-for-steroid-sale-ng-b88592046z

“behaved out of character” when he illegally sold anabolic steroids..."
idunno
New Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 13 Dec 2015 02:19

13 Sep 2017 07:08

Not only is dope an IOC probelm -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/41248774
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has been accused of "doing nothing" about its growing corruption crisis, by senior official **** Pound.

Several IOC officials have been implicated in corruption in 2017.

In the latest case, police last week raided the home of Carlos Nuzman, head of the Brazilian Olympic Committee, as they investigate "strong evidence" of vote-buying to secure Rio's 2016 bid.

"We've taken a severe hit in terms of credibility," Pound told BBC Sport.

"Every time another IOC member is implicated in something potentially nefarious we lose more credibility."

On Monday, IOC president Thomas Bach said the organisation would act on corruption allegations "once evidence is there".

But Canadian Pound, speaking to the BBC's Alex Capstick at an IOC executive board meeting in Lima, Peru, said: "What are we doing taking all these hits and doing nothing about it? We've got to recognise that we haven't done enough.

"If your conduct has put the IOC into disrepute, you should be liable to at least vigorous investigation and potentially sanctioned for it.

"That has not happened."
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re:

13 Sep 2017 13:51

Robert5091 wrote:Not only is dope an IOC probelm -

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/41248774
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has been accused of "doing nothing" about its growing corruption crisis, by senior official **** Pound.

Several IOC officials have been implicated in corruption in 2017.

In the latest case, police last week raided the home of Carlos Nuzman, head of the Brazilian Olympic Committee, as they investigate "strong evidence" of vote-buying to secure Rio's 2016 bid.

"We've taken a severe hit in terms of credibility," Pound told BBC Sport.

"Every time another IOC member is implicated in something potentially nefarious we lose more credibility."

On Monday, IOC president Thomas Bach said the organisation would act on corruption allegations "once evidence is there".

But Canadian Pound, speaking to the BBC's Alex Capstick at an IOC executive board meeting in Lima, Peru, said: "What are we doing taking all these hits and doing nothing about it? We've got to recognise that we haven't done enough.

"If your conduct has put the IOC into disrepute, you should be liable to at least vigorous investigation and potentially sanctioned for it.

"That has not happened."


**** Pound is not part any clean solution to sport. Pound said Coe was the man to clean up IAAF??

Coe thinks Federations have 'a role to play' in keeping sport clean! FFS, 'a role to play'.....idiot!
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,986
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

'dirtiest race in history'

23 Sep 2017 11:29

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/41371579
'dirtiest race in history'
Former Olympic 1500m champion Asli Cakir Alptekin has been banned for life after a third doping offence.

In 2015, the 32-year-old was stripped of her 2012 Olympic and European titles and suspended for eight years by the Turkish Athletics Federation.

She returned this year after the ban was halved and its start date backdated to 2013, but has since reoffended.

"We are never, ever going to allow doping," said Turkish Athletics Federation chief Fatih Cintimar.

Six of the first nine finishers in the women's 1500m final at the 2012 Olympics have been given drugs bans, leading some to refer to it as the "dirtiest race in history".

Straight after the race, Britain's Lisa Dobriskey, who finished 10th, told BBC Radio 5 live: "I don't believe I'm competing on a level playing field."

Cakir Alptekin previously served a two-year ban following a positive test at the 2004 World Junior Championships.

She finished 11th in the European Champion Clubs Cup Cross Country event in Portugal in February, helping Uskudar Belediyespor win the title.

The nature of her latest offence has not been made public.
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re: 'dirtiest race in history'

23 Sep 2017 12:44

Robert5091 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/41371579
'dirtiest race in history'
Former Olympic 1500m champion Asli Cakir Alptekin has been banned for life after a third doping offence.

In 2015, the 32-year-old was stripped of her 2012 Olympic and European titles and suspended for eight years by the Turkish Athletics Federation.

She returned this year after the ban was halved and its start date backdated to 2013, but has since reoffended.

"We are never, ever going to allow doping," said Turkish Athletics Federation chief Fatih Cintimar.

Six of the first nine finishers in the women's 1500m final at the 2012 Olympics have been given drugs bans, leading some to refer to it as the "dirtiest race in history".

Straight after the race, Britain's Lisa Dobriskey, who finished 10th, told BBC Radio 5 live: "I don't believe I'm competing on a level playing field."

Cakir Alptekin previously served a two-year ban following a positive test at the 2004 World Junior Championships.

She finished 11th in the European Champion Clubs Cup Cross Country event in Portugal in February, helping Uskudar Belediyespor win the title.

The nature of her latest offence has not been made public.



Dirtiest race in history is probably the Seoul 1988 100m men's final...
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,801
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

23 Sep 2017 12:51

A sad state of affairs when we can argue about the dirtiest race in history.
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Previous

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 25 guests

Back to top