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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Re:

10 Aug 2015 09:52

No idea Hitch.

BullsFan22 wrote:
Flamin wrote:Sad the Worlds are over, great event it was. Disappointed about the Russians. I would have thought them to take it to another level in front of their home crowd but they were just bad :( oh and also sad to hear about Sun Yang, definitely one of my favourites swimmers.

I'm already looking forward to the Olympics.


Maybe they actually don't dope, or at least not as much as the other top swimmers or other sports where Russians tend to go over the line...Or they are just not as good...


They are no USA but more was expected from them before the event. Especially national hero Morozov was disappointing. Although it was maybe exactly that pressure that made him choke. The other big hope, Efimova, despite winning 100m breast, wasn't as good as in 2013 either.

And neither was any of the surprises you have on every big event in every sport from a Russian.
User avatar Flamin
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10 Aug 2015 11:02

My 2c: swimming is actualy the sport with the highest potential for blood doping. First of all, it is the sport with the greatest ratio between hours spent training and hours spent competing meaning there is a huge potential for product used to enhance recovery. Second, the greatest number of races tend to last between 2 and 15 minutes having the aerobic-anaerobic combination that is perfect for blood doping. Just see what are the most suspicious distances in track&field: they tend to be running races between 800m and 5000m lasting exactly between 2 and 13 minutes...
User avatar franic
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10 Aug 2015 11:07

Just be thankful, they limited the mechanical doping of the super suits.

Thankfully, no-one can overcome that huge edge they provided and set records now.

Oh wait...
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Re:

10 Aug 2015 16:16

Catwhoorg wrote:Just be thankful, they limited the mechanical doping of the super suits.

Thankfully, no-one can overcome that huge edge they provided and set records now.

Oh wait...

Some actually speculate that an oval skull may give a 6% advantage versus a round skull :p .
When I woke up and saw the yellow jersey that I had left by my bed the night before, I asked myself: "what are you doing in Merckx's bedroom?" I couldn't believe it - Bernard Thevenet
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10 Aug 2015 16:36

Don't tell Michael Phelps that you are supposed to peak in your 20s. Besides the 100 and 200m Fly times that have been noted, Phelps also won the 200m IM in a time that would've won a WC gold. To me, what is the most ridiculous part is that his textile suit times are now approaching the times he set in the space-age hi tech suits.... at 30 years old.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/swimming/story/_/id/13407802/look-rio-michael-phelps-better-ever
djpbaltimore
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10 Aug 2015 21:54

The fans and commentators defending Ledecky are already reminding me of Lance Armstrong. Trotting out some classics like "she trains harder than everyone else" (What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my *** six hours a day.), "the most tested athlete in swimming", and watching her dominate other swimmers who have failed drug tests. She is certainly not alone, but I don't find her performance to be credible.
Blakeslee
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Re:

11 Aug 2015 10:05

Blakeslee wrote:The fans and commentators defending Ledecky are already reminding me of Lance Armstrong. Trotting out some classics like "she trains harder than everyone else" (What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my *** six hours a day.), "the most tested athlete in swimming", and watching her dominate other swimmers who have failed drug tests. She is certainly not alone, but I don't find her performance to be credible.

The Eurosport commentators were really good, in all fairness. Whenever there was a performance they thought was suspicious they would carefully imply it, but not say it outright in order to avoid a lawsuit. They would say that it was 'beyond the realms of what we thought possible' or 'superhuman performance'. At least I took as if they were implying doping, maybe they were not.
Brullnux
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11 Aug 2015 12:53

I have a question - how much complicity do you think a 15 year old would have in her own doping? I mean, would she be aware of it? Not giving her a get-out, more just curious as to how much control someone so young would have in their training? I mean, I'm guessing her awareness of some things was more than the average 15 year old, but equally, she is still a child, how much would people be telling her, and how much would she/should she realistically have been questioning?
flying_plum
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Re: Swimming

15 Nov 2015 11:12

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3318802/Young-swimmer-died-middle-night-sparks-new-fears-China-copied-Russia-s-doping-regime.html

Surely not China as well? :eek:

What ever next? Someone will tell me that the UK national lottery funded system that only rewards winning (against the aforementioned 'dodgy' nations) encourages doping! :eek:

Sarcasm aside, looks like another athlete has paid a high price for all this.
German Spies…. “Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!”
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Re: Swimming

15 Nov 2015 15:26

The Carrot wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3318802/Young-swimmer-died-middle-night-sparks-new-fears-China-copied-Russia-s-doping-regime.html

Surely not China as well? :eek:

What ever next? Someone will tell me that the UK national lottery funded system that only rewards winning (against the aforementioned 'dodgy' nations) encourages doping! :eek:

Sarcasm aside, looks like another athlete has paid a high price for all this.


The Chinese are really reckless with their doping. It's not systematic, it's reckless. The Americans and Russians are a little more sophisticated, they at least don't kill their athletes.
BullsFan22
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Re:

16 Nov 2015 03:39

flying_plum wrote:I have a question - how much complicity do you think a 15 year old would have in her own doping? I mean, would she be aware of it? Not giving her a get-out, more just curious as to how much control someone so young would have in their training? I mean, I'm guessing her awareness of some things was more than the average 15 year old, but equally, she is still a child, how much would people be telling her, and how much would she/should she realistically have been questioning?


almost 0 degree complicity. And I have stressed this before in this thread, when i was criticised.

the new peptides come in creams, mouth oral solutions, and other modes of application, not hypodermics. To take cjc she could just be told by her coach to rub the cream into he stomach twice a day because it will keep her muscles "supple".

that is how it will work ;)

so zero degree complicity by the 15yo
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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14 Dec 2015 01:14

Ledecky just swam a 8:59 in the 1000 yard free, shattering the American record. She beat Andrew Gemmell by two seconds. He represented the USA in the 1500 at the last Olympics. So she is beating the best American men now....
Satchmo3
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Re: Swimming

15 Dec 2015 11:01

BullsFan22 wrote:
The Carrot wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3318802/Young-swimmer-died-middle-night-sparks-new-fears-China-copied-Russia-s-doping-regime.html

Surely not China as well? :eek:

What ever next? Someone will tell me that the UK national lottery funded system that only rewards winning (against the aforementioned 'dodgy' nations) encourages doping! :eek:

Sarcasm aside, looks like another athlete has paid a high price for all this.


The Chinese are really reckless with their doping. It's not systematic, it's reckless. The Americans and Russians are a little more sophisticated, they at least don't kill their athletes.


Actually that is not the case at all in the USA
There are plenty of high school coaches and college coaches that will have conversations with athletes and parents that go along the lines of
"you've got talent but you are not , big enough, strong enough or fast enough, but if you were to get a "nutritionist" or a "trainer" you might be able to make it."
The kids - or their parents who are sometimes the drivers of these poor decisions, then go out and do whatever they need to, to make the team. as it will get them into the better colleges or the better teams to be noticed,
If they don't make it however the american sport system does not give a damn and will jettison these poor kids to the sidelines without a thought.
There are kids dying all over the USA due to messing about with drugs and trying to do the impossible to get into the right school team to get to the best colleges on a scholarship to try and escape from the lives they live.
Due to the fact that there are so few colleges with good teams and so few colleges make up the national squads or top picks for the pro ranks, it is very very cut-throat and those who don't make it will not only be left with potentially large bills and poor health but also no way out of the poverty trap or mess they left themselves in - add in a ridiculous health system that is very expensive and you will see that the issues these experiments cause in later life will cause them a lifetime of paying for a failure to make their fortunes.

Sport in the USA is a business from the minute the kids get to high school
Lets not forget there are high school football coaches earning six figues and most college football coaches earn seven figures.
Basketball is not far behind
Track and field is a poor relation
swimming is even further down the pecking order
so to make it in swimming you have a very small number of schools to try to get into to be noticed and make it to the top ranks.

As with most things these days - it will be our children that will pay for our mistakes with their lives and money for generations to come.
Rob27172
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15 Dec 2015 12:36

Swimming is cleans! The international federation guarantees it!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/aquatics/swimming-doping-fina-coaches-1.3361697
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
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08 Aug 2016 14:13

Honest question: can these upper bodies plausibly be achieved without hgh and steroids?
I realize these guys do a lot of weight training, but still.

ImageImageImageImageImage
sniper
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08 Aug 2016 14:56

German Spies…. “Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!”
One of our spies...” Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!”


General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett VC DSO (Blackadder goes forth)
The Carrot
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08 Aug 2016 16:23

Why do swimmers peak so much younger than every other sport?

I just saw yanhan ai 14 y.o just come second in a race. This would never happen in runnning, rowing, cycling. I suppose it is similar to gymnastics. How can you compete at 14 years old against olympians??
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09 Aug 2016 22:21

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad

OLYMPIC swimmers and coaches have lost complete faith in FINA amid revelations swimming’s governing body inexplicably let two convicted drug cheats escape out of competition testing for five months last year.

Not that the tests are easy to beat anyways.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re:

09 Aug 2016 23:29

Benotti69 wrote:http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad

OLYMPIC swimmers and coaches have lost complete faith in FINA amid revelations swimming’s governing body inexplicably let two convicted drug cheats escape out of competition testing for five months last year.

Not that the tests are easy to beat anyways.



The comment section is filled with some unbelievable stuff. Truly incredible.
BullsFan22
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Re:

10 Aug 2016 01:02

Benotti69 wrote:http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad

OLYMPIC swimmers and coaches have lost complete faith in FINA amid revelations swimming’s governing body inexplicably let two convicted drug cheats escape out of competition testing for five months last year.

Not that the tests are easy to beat anyways.


Aussie swimmers pretending to be clean? Now, that is the biggest laugh in the history of sport :rolleyes:
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