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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Swimming

16 Aug 2016 02:32

Posted this in the Olympics thread but worthwhile here too.

News Corp can reveal dopers Ning Zetao of China and Russian Yulia Efimova were not tested once by FINA in the five months immediately after they were controversially crowned world champions last year.

Swim team officials were dumbfounded when told of FINA’s testing failure which meant during peak training periods Ning and Efimova were only subjected to testing by their own agencies RUSADA and CHINADA – both since discredited this year – while the rest of the world faced a barrage of drugs tests.

In the same period Australia’s Cameron McEvoy faced three FINA drug tests, while 2015 world champions Bronte Campbell (two), Mitch Larkin (three) and Emily Seebohm (two) were also routinely tested without taking into account regular unannounced visits from ASADA.

Olympic relay champion Melanie Wright said it’s time to get rid of FINA and start with a clean slate for a clean sport.

“I think athletes and coaches have lost faith in FINA. They have been perennially weak on doping,” Wright told News Corp.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad
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18 Aug 2016 12:40

https://swimswam.com/problem-rio-pool/

I know jokes can be made about a tailwind/following current, but the Rio pool may actually have a circulation going on.
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Re: Re:

19 Aug 2016 01:48

StryderHells wrote:
thehog wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics-2016/convicted-drug-cheats-escaped-out-of-competition-testing-before-rio/news-story/1a8d97cd2cd846d8d9c973391e4a71ad

OLYMPIC swimmers and coaches have lost complete faith in FINA amid revelations swimming’s governing body inexplicably let two convicted drug cheats escape out of competition testing for five months last year.

Not that the tests are easy to beat anyways.


Aussie swimmers pretending to be clean? Now, that is the biggest laugh in the history of sport :rolleyes:


The media down here is all over it talking about how our great clean Aussie swimmers having to compete against these doped up Chinese cheats, not even one voice speaking about the possibility that Aussie swimmers could be doping, they just wouldn't do that as we don't have a doping culture and show just what can be achieved with good old hard work :rolleyes:


this is hilarious.

but note the language Mack Horton used, he said, I am not against Sun Yang per se, only athletes who have "tested positive". The mealy mouthed language may, or may not be telling. My conspiratorial perspective, immediately read something into his language. No one gets to an Olympic final in either swimming or T&F without using PEDs imo.
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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Re:

19 Aug 2016 01:55

thrawn wrote:Phelps is totes clean.


gimme a T
T
gimme some stage 16 T
testo
gimmme some chimera
no
thats Tyler and his dead twin you idjit

gimme an O
O
gimme some more T
you have had enough T, you are already positive in the carbon isotope test you idjit
gimme en E
ecstasy? think you are high enuff now brah
gimme an S
S for shurly [sic]... #alliterationz

#acromegaly evidentiary submission number one michael phelps, exogenous acromegaly, hormone releasing peptide exogenous acromegaly evidence submission
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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Re: Swimming

19 Aug 2016 02:09

Merckx index wrote:Short sprint events are always going to be more subject to chance. If your dive or turn is a little off, it can make a big difference. So can where you are in your stroke cycle as you approach the wall. The 100m FS, and even more the 50m, is a crapshoot. When was the last time a man repeated as champion in the 100 FS? I think Popov in 92/96. Also did the double in the 50, which is extraordinary.

This, by the way, leads to me a non-doping explanation of Phelps (not saying he isn't doping, but looking for other explanations). He may have always been a good sprinter naturally, but didn't emphasize it, because middle distance events are safer, more predictable. Now, as he ages, and can't handle all the extra distance involved in training and racing at those distances, he's working on his sprinting more. Also, since he's dropped the 400 IM, he can emphasize FS a little more than in the past. Thus his time in the 4 x 100 FS relay was close to his best.

But his 200 IM was certainly suspicious, too. For the most part, his times now are well off what he did in his prime, but his time in the 200 IM final was very close to his personal best. Lochte swam just 0.2 second or so slower than he did in the semis, and more than three seconds off his WR, as you would expect for a guy 32 years old. But Phelps knocked two whole seconds off his semi time. And most of that damage was in the final 50 FS.


remember the South African Rik Neethling, or Neetling, he came down from 1500m to 100m and mebbe even 50. He added a fair bit of muscle.

They are all on it. Even the Canuck. just like Geneviève Jeanson and Andre Aubut...

I thought the Australian females(especially the sisters_ were acting very strange, and their eyes/pupils looked dilated. NB. devils advocate. they do have the weight of a nation on their substantial shoulders

now, there could be reasons why they were naturally dilated + energy effort exertion.

but i dont have to tell anyone about my conspiracy and potential confirmation bias, i did attempt at getting a control sample by scopiing out other irises on google image search....

its like the novak djokovic tennis thread here, their eyes were pretty cray cray stutter alliterationz

Image
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09 Sep 2016 09:01

In 1976 West and East Germany experimented with injecting...AIR...into their swimmers in preparation for the Montreal Games in the hope they would float better and develop more speed.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19770205&id=uztOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=te0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5043,1451450&hl=en

Choose your emoticon.
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Re:

09 Sep 2016 12:11

sniper wrote:In 1976 West and East Germany experimented with injecting...AIR...into their swimmers in preparation for the Montreal Games in the hope they would float better and develop more speed.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19770205&id=uztOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=te0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5043,1451450&hl=en

Choose your emoticon.




Not surprising. I've posted several links on more than one occasion outlining West German doping. Perhaps they weren't as 'sophisticated' as the East, they did their fair share of doping, and not just on an individual basis. The only reason the East Germans get more flack (not saying that they shouldn't get flack) is because they were a Soviet satellite and Communists.

I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2016 14:21

BullsFan22 wrote:...

I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?

When the wall came down, literally thousands of East German sports doctors allegedly left the country to seek jobs elsewhere.
I read an estimate of ca. 5000 of these 'refugee' docs somewhere.
Only very few of these docs can be traced back today (Salzwedel, and this GB t&f coach, spring to mind)
What happened to the others?
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Re: Re:

11 Sep 2016 11:50

sniper wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:...

I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?

When the wall came down, literally thousands of East German sports doctors allegedly left the country to seek jobs elsewhere.
I read an estimate of ca. 5000 of these 'refugee' docs somewhere.
Only very few of these docs can be traced back today (Salzwedel, and this GB t&f coach, spring to mind)
What happened to the others?



This is the kind of thing proper investigative journalists (stop laughing at the back there) ought to have looked into over the last 20 years. Basically the East German sports doctors are the modern equivalent of the rocket scientists who left Germany after the war and worked on the US & Soviet space programs. Except they were doing something good.
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Re: Re:

11 Sep 2016 12:57

sniper wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:...

I don't think a unified Germany has had as much success at the Olympics as one would imagine. I don't believe it has to do with less, or less flagrant doping, does it?

When the wall came down, literally thousands of East German sports doctors allegedly left the country to seek jobs elsewhere.
I read an estimate of ca. 5000 of these 'refugee' docs somewhere.
Only very few of these docs can be traced back today (Salzwedel, and this GB t&f coach, spring to mind)
What happened to the others?

Bernd Pansold, the main doping doctor of the SC Dynamo Berlin that was convicted for doping underaged Athletes is now working with Red Bull and their athletes since 2003.
Before that he had already been working in Austria for years, mostly for the Austrian skiing federation (he also worked with Hermann Maier).
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11 Sep 2016 15:53

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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 18:20

I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 18:41

gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 18:57

BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??


Nope, but you could explain the joke.
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 19:04

gooner wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??


Nope, but you could explain the joke.



The chances of Lilly King being clean are slim to none. Once you got to a certain level of pro sport, the inevitability of doping is quite great.
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 19:09

BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??


Nope, but you could explain the joke.



The chances of Lilly King being clean are slim to none. Once you got to a certain level of pro sport, the inevitability of doping is quite great.


It digusts me how so many of these athletes especially from USA and UK act just so holier than thou.
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 19:09

BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??


Nope, but you could explain the joke.



The chances of Lilly King being clean are slim to none. Once you got to a certain level of pro sport, the inevitability of doping is quite great.


That's just a statement of faith. It offers nothing of substance.

It doesn't mean it's a joke to welcome King's views.
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 19:10

veganrob wrote:
It digusts me how so many of these athletes especially from USA and UK act just so holier than thou.


Which is why she has said Gatlin and Gay shouldn't be on the US team for the Olympics.
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 20:21

gooner wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:I have been following the worlds all week. Among all the rubbish and bad news today, it's good to see someone like this win two golds so far and still going for more.

http://www.swimvortex.com/lilly-king-celebrates-the-light-dark-of-mclaren-reports-with-finger-wagging-104/



Lilly King?!? Is this a joke??


Nope, but you could explain the joke.



The chances of Lilly King being clean are slim to none. Once you got to a certain level of pro sport, the inevitability of doping is quite great.


That's just a statement of faith. It offers nothing of substance.

It doesn't mean it's a joke to welcome King's views.


King can say whatever she wants and you and I can welcome any or all or none of what she says. We can also criticize it. The endless negative portrayal of Russia in the United States (I can't speak for the UK, as I don't think I follow enough as much as a Brit would) be it politics, sport, lifestyle, whatever has had quite an effect on the public, and these athletes are no different. It was endless in the lead-up to Sochi, it was quite nauseating during Sochi (Bob Costas and the opening ceremony was just bizarre to me) and I think it's ratcheted up a couple notches since then. Anything that a Russian does that's made public in the mainstream media in the US is bad. It's a lose-lose situation. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Nobody's denying that there are issues with doping in Russia. My biggest issue with it is the fact that it's politicized so much in the US and Germany for example (I've spent time in Germany as well during the past few years). The Russians are singled out and made a scapegoat. Think of Ben Johnson 1988 Seoul on a country scale. 6 of the finalists in that 100m race that Johnson won were at one point or another implicated in doping scandals. Carl Lewis (the Lilly King of Seoul) had a number of positive tests during the Summer of 1988 annulled by the American authorities (sound familiar?). And what happened? Johnson was scapegoated, his medal taken away, and given to Lewis, who failed numerous doping tests and who continuously called/calls Johnson out.

These are the links that clearly show that the US can hardly call Russia's tampering unprecedented because they themselves did pretty much the same in the not too distant past:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/exum-claims-large-scale-cover-up-of-doping-positives/

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/17/sports/olympics-anti-doping-official-says-us-covered-up.html

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s155405.htm

http://www.playthegame.org/news/news-articles/2003/q-a-with-dr-wade-exum/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/2400198/Athletics-Now-drink-tarnishes-Lewis-legend.html

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172707806.html


I don't see anything different between Russia and the US in terms of tampering and/or letting dopers off the hook, do you?

Why then, was the US allowed to host the 1996 Olympics, the 2002 Olympics, and a plethora of other international events? The entire Russian T&F team (except Klishina) was banned from Rio. Why wasn't the entire US T&F banned from any international events until they could show they were competing clean and that the authorities weren't covering up doping tests?
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Re: Swimming

09 Dec 2016 20:52

@BullsFan22,

King didn't scapegoat Efimova because she was Russian. Of course King will say something about Efimova as she is a direct rival. As I said already, she included Gatlin, Gay and others that shouldn't be on the US team. Meillutyte also had a running feud with Efimova.

I take your word about the US sports media, yet King is not accountable for that. It's separate and I don't think she politicized it with Efimova.

The damned if you do, damned if you don't applies to athletes speaking out too and it's something I see regularly.

That Carl Lewis calls out people with a cloud over himself, doesn't mean the same applies to King. Nothing suggests that.
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