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Team Sky and BC Books.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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25 Sep 2015 19:04

Make money and keep your enemies close so 'everyone' can make even more money.
User avatar Metabolol
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:07

wendybnt wrote:
JimmyFingers wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
JimmyFingers wrote:No you're wrong, book releases are clear evidence of Sky's racketeering and protection rackets

I don't think anyone ever said anything of the sort.

BTW why are you so obsessed about this thread existing? Its no big deal, its just a thread.

Have you even read any of these books. If you had, and you'd seen some of the absolutely bats*** insane arguments Sky and their authors make in them, you might understand why we would want a seperate thread in which to host a discussion about them.

Particularly funny, from memory, are the claims that Froome trains 4 hours every night with his strava off so that his coaches don't find out and the piece de resistance, the portrayal of Rod Ellingworth as "anti doping" :o


You equated them releasing books with criminal gangs inserting themselves into the upper echelons of society, so they become institutionalised and difficult to bring to justice. As I said, embarrassing. As for obsession, this is your thread, you posted it, so who is the one obsessed?



Jimmy...Jimmy....Jimmy.... :rolleyes:

You aren't understanding the rules of the game. One Sky/Brit bashing thread was closed, so another must be opened. Did you not realise this would happen the moment the other thread was locked :D

Anyway, it is a valid thread topic I think. Wanting to play devil's advocate, I just popped over to the Italian amazon site to try and see if there were books about Astana and Nibali. Not a very fair comparison, because Astana doesn't have the pure association with one nation in terms of team registration and principal riders, in the way that Sky does, but nevertheless there were only two books that I could find about Nibali. This is in stark comparison to Hitch's long list although a couple of his entries are pushing it a bit.

In a sense Sky is a much more homogenous project than any other team since, maybe Mapei, and therefore the literature will coagulate around the one team. But I agree with Hitch in so far as there are a lot of spin offs from this team. I'm not sure it is fair to tie it into doping, as I think all the GT winners (and maybe other race winners too) are doping. I don't believe there is any non-doping GT winning 'control group' against which Sky can be compared. It is up to the teams to make what they can out of their race wins, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if a team that is paid for by a media company subsequently makes the most of the media.

By the way, I think you should add team kits to the list of money making ventures. If I see another flabby middle-aged man panting his way along the road on a Pinarello, and stuffed into black and light-blue lycra I'll probably scream.


Haha yes, one thread get torpedoed and another springs from the ashes.

All cyclists and cycling teams, nay all successful sportsman make money from endorsements and the like, it pays (literally) to have as many sidelines as possible, hence the CVNDSH range, the Wiggo Fred Perry shirts, and of course replica kits and books. It's part and parcel of the industry, just about promoting your brand and lining your pockets while you do. After all you've only got until your mid thirties or so to do it. While I'm sure it it benefits dopers to have friends in high places (look at Jimmy Saville) I firmly believe releasing a book or having a clothing line isn't going to achieve that aim.

Getting a knighthood might though, eh Bradley? ;)

The amount of books Sky has released is just a huge red herrings, but this is the clinic and there's nothing more fun than conjuring conspiracy out of thin air, throw in some mocking memes of the Dawg or Wiggo and bingo, you have the classic clinic thread. Fun for all the family.
JimmyFingers
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25 Sep 2015 19:15

Relax Jimmy, its all about literacy rates, that's why LRP hasn't released a book, so few of his countrymen can read :D
del1962
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:21

carton wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:and some ask why people like astana better...
how many book are out there about vino, shefer and zeits?

Not to rehash some of what was said on a recently locked thread but there are books about Vino in Kazakh. He's a freaking national hero there. Loved this apparent mistranslation in particular "the Olympic champion will be opened in the name of so-called public funds".

But yeah, Sky fans do seem to like reading a lot. Who would've thunk it?


Maybe we should compare Astana to Sky when the leading rider at Sky buys a major race and then has BC cycling reimburse him for the expenses.
User avatar roundabout
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:36

roundabout wrote:
carton wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:and some ask why people like astana better...
how many book are out there about vino, shefer and zeits?

Not to rehash some of what was said on a recently locked thread but there are books about Vino in Kazakh. He's a freaking national hero there. Loved this apparent mistranslation in particular "the Olympic champion will be opened in the name of so-called public funds".

But yeah, Sky fans do seem to like reading a lot. Who would've thunk it?


Maybe we should compare Astana to Sky when the leading rider at Sky buys a major race and then has BC cycling reimburse him for the expenses.



vino 4 ever.
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25 Sep 2015 19:41

Jimmy. This thread was set up because Wiggins had just announced a few hours earlier that he was going to release another book. One that covers the 30 months that have passed since the last one, the world tt championship, the hour record and a few month long binges.

It reminded me of a discussion on twitter when Ross Tucker (praise be upon him) retweeted one of Emma's posts and one of the SKy drones rolled in with the familiar - you are just trying to sell your book.

Tucker comically asked if instead of Emma's book we should all go out to buy wiggos upcoming 5th book or Froomes upcoming 2nd.

So i thought it really funny when I read yesterday, just 2 months after Ross made his tweet, that wiggins will indeed be releasing another book.

And in those short 2 months (since July 14th) Brailsford, thomas and Millar have all also announced new books.

So with 4 new books announced in just 2 months, I thought it was definately worth starting a thread about it.

And its been worth it. With the exception of your posts weve had some good productive discussions.

And for the record, I haven't started a Sky one in a long time.
Last edited by The Hitch on 25 Sep 2015 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar The Hitch
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:44

gooner wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
Cricket is hardly a 'clean' sport. Match fixing in cricket is a big problem.


No one is denying that but then it's a stretch to say Pietersen is releasing books to camouflage what you say.


I dont think Sky are releasing books to hide doping per se. But getting all the 'top' cycling hacks onside helps them very much. When did any of the writers(apart from Walsh) go after Armstrong? None. They are all dyed in the wool omerta writers.......

That is a form of protectionism in my book!
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:46

roundabout wrote:
carton wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:and some ask why people like astana better...
how many book are out there about vino, shefer and zeits?

Not to rehash some of what was said on a recently locked thread but there are books about Vino in Kazakh. He's a freaking national hero there. Loved this apparent mistranslation in particular "the Olympic champion will be opened in the name of so-called public funds".

But yeah, Sky fans do seem to like reading a lot. Who would've thunk it?


Maybe we should compare Astana to Sky when the leading rider at Sky buys a major race and then has BC cycling reimburse him for the expenses.

Is it that different that it was the GM that bought the 2012 Tour de France and not the lead rider?

And yes I agree, Astana is every bit as bad
User avatar The Hitch
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 19:51

JimmyFingers wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:[url][/url]
JimmyFingers wrote:No you're wrong, book releases are clear evidence of Sky's racketeering and protection rackets


Well if you hire cycling journalists to write your library of cycling books about your team, riders, coaches, managers etc they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them! So yes it is a protection racket.


No no I agree, I'm with this one. Books=doping. It's as clear as day.


No.

Come on man, you've been part of every sky conversation. The image of Sky is what starts these fires. It is the hypocrisy that lights up the clinic:

The Sky thread is thousands of pages long. Half of those posts are people saying "why do you only accuse sky", and the replies saying "everyone dopes, but only sky fans try to say they don't". The Contador thread isn't endless because there is no narrative being spun to say he is clean, not to the extent of Sky. The Valverde discussion is the same: there aren't a dozen books about him being the greatest since sliced bread.

So why do people care about Sky's narrative? Because we're tired of being lied to. We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.

That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale

No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.
More Strides than Rides
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 20:22

More Strides than Rides wrote:
JimmyFingers wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:[url][/url]
JimmyFingers wrote:No you're wrong, book releases are clear evidence of Sky's racketeering and protection rackets


Well if you hire cycling journalists to write your library of cycling books about your team, riders, coaches, managers etc they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them! So yes it is a protection racket.


No no I agree, I'm with this one. Books=doping. It's as clear as day.


No.

Come on man, you've been part of every sky conversation. The image of Sky is what starts these fires. It is the hypocrisy that lights up the clinic:

The Sky thread is thousands of pages long. Half of those posts are people saying "why do you only accuse sky", and the replies saying "everyone dopes, but only sky fans try to say they don't". The Contador thread isn't endless because there is no narrative being spun to say he is clean, not to the extent of Sky. The Valverde discussion is the same: there aren't a dozen books about him being the greatest since sliced bread.

So why do people care about Sky's narrative? Because we're tired of being lied to. We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.

That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale

No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.



Exactly this.
German Spies…. “Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!”
One of our spies...” Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!”


General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett VC DSO (Blackadder goes forth)
The Carrot
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25 Sep 2015 20:33

yeah, mstr pretty much nailed it. As usual.
User avatar The Hitch
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 20:51

More Strides than Rides wrote:
No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.


Someone should write a book called "the perfect sponsor".

Now -we needn't imagine what one such can do.

We've seen it with our own eyes.
User avatar mrhender
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Re: Re:

25 Sep 2015 20:58

More Strides than Rides wrote:
JimmyFingers wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:[url][/url]
JimmyFingers wrote:No you're wrong, book releases are clear evidence of Sky's racketeering and protection rackets


Well if you hire cycling journalists to write your library of cycling books about your team, riders, coaches, managers etc they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them! So yes it is a protection racket.


No no I agree, I'm with this one. Books=doping. It's as clear as day.


No.

Come on man, you've been part of every sky conversation. The image of Sky is what starts these fires. It is the hypocrisy that lights up the clinic:

The Sky thread is thousands of pages long. Half of those posts are people saying "why do you only accuse sky", and the replies saying "everyone dopes, but only sky fans try to say they don't". The Contador thread isn't endless because there is no narrative being spun to say he is clean, not to the extent of Sky. The Valverde discussion is the same: there aren't a dozen books about him being the greatest since sliced bread.

So why do people care about Sky's narrative? Because we're tired of being lied to. We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.

That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale

No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.


Worth reposting as it appears some dont get it!
User avatar Benotti69
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Re:

25 Sep 2015 21:01

wendybnt wrote:http://stevetilford.com/2015/04/03/astana-is-a-symbol-of-clean-and-honest-sport-vincenzo-nibali/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16937377

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-says-he-believes-contador-is-clean/


....because the other main GT riders never pretend to be clean ;)


yeps.
I was looking for the bank transfer about Brailsford "buying" the 2012 Tour from Aso. did not find them.
yes, DB just bought some special fuel, did not buy the race.
if some Sky rider was proved to have bought a race we would be talking about that until 2022 (just like Froome hanging on tha motorbike 5 years ago)
pastronef
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25 Sep 2015 21:03

Not really, Bennotti, I just disagree,

The only reason somebody would find it "oppressive" that Sky are "shoving mistruths down your throat" is if they fixate on it. I just see a team being asked if they are doping and they reply 'no' and come up with some bullsh1t.

Contador had dodgy steak.
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25 Sep 2015 21:08

I dont see so many defending Contador, but as MSTR put it so well;

"We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.

That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale"

A fan wouldn't find it oppressive, they would revel in it and they obviously do and blindly defend it and call others who dont haters....

Armstrong part deux.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re:

25 Sep 2015 21:16

Benotti69 wrote:I dont see so many defending Contador, but as MSTR put it so well;

"We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.

That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale"

A fan wouldn't find it oppressive, they would revel in it and they obviously do and blindly defend it and call others who dont haters....

Armstrong part deux.


agree with that. but I also like to think with my own brain, and not pay attention to that. instead of getting angry, ignore that. and I root for Sky (a big % of that comes from the clinic obsession for them), I am blocked by Froome, and never bought their books.
I think not paying attention to the British Sky fans and the Sky narrative prepared for them (just as not paying attention to my fellow Italians Aru/nibali worshippers) is the best way not to get angry and pissed about ANY fecking word these teams "try to show down our throats"
pastronef
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25 Sep 2015 21:17

I don't think you get it, Benotti. It isn't about defending Contador it is about being blinded by Sky and not realising the others are doing exactly the same.

Nibali "I'm a symbol of clean sport"

Contador "It was the steak"

Benotti69 wrote:
A fan wouldn't find it oppressive, they would revel in it and they obviously do and blindly defend it and call others who dont haters....

Armstrong part deux.


Is anybody here blindly defending anything?

If that is aimed at me, then you clearly haven't read what I've said. I'm not defending anybody, I'm accusing others of the same thing.
Last edited by wendybnt on 25 Sep 2015 21:22, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar wendybnt
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Re:

25 Sep 2015 21:19

wendybnt wrote:http://stevetilford.com/2015/04/03/astana-is-a-symbol-of-clean-and-honest-sport-vincenzo-nibali/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16937377

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-says-he-believes-contador-is-clean/


....because the other main GT riders never pretend to be clean ;)


But Riis for example. Despite of claiming to be the father of new clean cycling with his internal passport created by Rasmus Damsgaard et al did not have the same ressources or connections that team sky have today.
It was never about creating clean tour winner as Riis claimed in his book he did with Sastre.

When Sastre won the TDF Riis alledgedly told Prudhomme "here you have your clean TDF winner!
Prudhomme replied "I know".

This had nothing to do with offering a clean TDF winner but offering someone who would appear clean to the broad cycling base, because Sastre was a quiet seemingly sympathetic guy with no hard evidence attached.

Things changed after that when Sky came with their marginal gains, enlarging the cycling "fanbase" with 20%.

All this while having a major media cooperation running the "cleans" narrative.

Some people jumped the wagon back then with Riis. You can hardly blaim people for developing an up-going curve of criticism towards winners. And the winners (being Sky) had basically no experience in road racing and despite of this has won thre times the TDF in 1/3 of the period the expert doper Riis did (win one) as team owner.

The point is I do think ressources matter.

Especially when it comes to "selling your man". whomever it may be at the moment.

And that they matter a lot.
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