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Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Most Suspicious Performance Of The Last 5 Years

14 May 2017 12:22

Well fortunately for Landis, he is out of the woods in this particular category.
BullsFan22
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14 May 2017 13:37

Honestly I don't anything is going to beat that Landis performance.

Only maybe if someone crushes Pantanis Alpe d'Heuz record would I have to think about it.
deValtos
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Re: Re:

14 May 2017 13:53

ThePopeOfDope wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Djoop wrote:Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...


Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

The Alpe wasn't in the infamous Landis stage, that was stage 15.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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14 May 2017 13:57

Pulling 6,1 w/kg up Joux Plane (I doubt he did that after that performance) would be out of this world.
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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Re: Re:

14 May 2017 16:18

Libertine Seguros wrote:
ThePopeOfDope wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Djoop wrote:Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...


Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

The Alpe wasn't in the infamous Landis stage, that was stage 15.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rxh-AWyVr4 you're right.
ThePopeOfDope
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14 May 2017 16:48

Astana 2015 for me. Landa's underwhelming performances since leaving Astana is also
suspect.
Also Landis 2006 raid finished over Joux Plane descending into Morzine.
Cookster15
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Re: Re:

14 May 2017 18:15

ThePopeOfDope wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Djoop wrote:Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...


Exactly Landis was a 120km solo raid in the scorching heat that ended with the 12th fastest time on the Alpe d'huez (38'35" around 6.1 W/kg). Nibali barely held 5.9 on the last climb. As impressive as his comeback was (IMO 1 blood bag for the entire GT hence why he was losing time during the 2nd week) it is nothing compared to what Landis did on stage 17. I guess most people who compare both started following cycling in 2012 :lol:

Yeah, only since the early 80s. Is your intuition always this far off? :lol:
Djoop
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Re: Re:

14 May 2017 18:57



LMAO, 3:00 into that video they show the top-10 but also include at the bottom everyone's favorite OBE Knight, Sir BW, who is down at 127th and 2:34:14 behind. :lol:
V3R1T4S
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Re:

14 May 2017 21:00

Cookster15 wrote:Astana 2015 for me. Landa's underwhelming performances since leaving Astana is also
suspect.
Also Landis 2006 raid finished over Joux Plane descending into Morzine.


Portoleau clocked him at 5.65 w/kg on the Joux Plane.
ThePopeOfDope
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Re: Re:

15 May 2017 03:20

ThePopeOfDope wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.


Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.


It doesn't follow that by asserting that X is most suspicious, Y is not suspicious.

My reason for giving the 'most' gong to Astana's Giro 2015 was because they were blowing things apart on flat stages as well as mountains. In fact, all the way through, from go to woe. They had the hammer down the whole tour. It was insane. Neither Sky, nor Banesto, nor Postal ever did that.
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15 May 2017 12:15

Wout Poels in last year's TDF stuck out like a sore thumb. I couldn't believe his mountain performance.
QuickZulu
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Re:

15 May 2017 16:09

deValtos wrote:Honestly I don't anything is going to beat that Landis performance.


Jeepers, even after he dismounts he's still raging full on. He could probably have done it all again he's that pumped up.
Norks74
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Re: Re:

15 May 2017 16:22

The Hegelian wrote:
ThePopeOfDope wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:It can be rationalised all sorts of ways, but watching it live was like watching classic '00's alien GTs, Landis tdf included. The resurrection precedent set by Aru says it all: the whole Astana team in the Giro 2015 is for mine, the most suspicious performance of the last 5 years. Nibali's blood bag + whatever else to win the unwinnable is in the top five though, that's for sure.


Really? is your name David Walsh?
You are aware that the only one who outperformed was Landa? Everyone else did exactly what they had previously managed to achieve.
Most suspicious Team performance is team Sky's last year's TDF, they made Banesto and Postal look clean.


It doesn't follow that by asserting that X is most suspicious, Y is not suspicious.

My reason for giving the 'most' gong to Astana's Giro 2015 was because they were blowing things apart on flat stages as well as mountains. In fact, all the way through, from go to woe. They had the hammer down the whole tour. It was insane. Neither Sky, nor Banesto, nor Postal ever did that.

Yet they still couldn't even beat a well past his best Contador.

Their performance that Giro is nowhere near any of the Tours de France that Froome has podiumed for levels of ridiculousness. It was just the strongest team in the race trying to wreak havoc to cause decisive problems for the favourite, but ultimately failing to do so.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2017 21:53

Urgh, those Astana incredible giro 2015 opinions is like a collective psychosis. Aru was super weak on the Mortirolo compared to guys like Kruiswijk and Hesjedal. Landa was good, the rest were average or as good as they had often been previously as someone stated on the last page. Also the post above.


Scarponi wrote:
Djoop wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Djoop wrote:Nibali doing a Landis 2.0 in 2016. Went into hospital and emerged the Giro winner.

He didn't pull a Landis.

If Kruijswijk didn't crash this would be a non issue. Landis lost a boatload of time when he cracked one day and gained it all plus some back the next day. Completely different set of circumstances.

Although, Nibali is always under suspicion along with the rest of the GC contenders...


No, he clearly outperformed Landis on this feat. Kruijswijk crashing helped hiding the fact he made up more than 6 minutes. That his Astana teamm8s, after the 2nd rest day, were suddenly capable of dropping GC contenders. For 3 days, it was like watching US Postal all over again. The only difference is that they also attacked on the descends, and haevily fatigued GC contenders like Kruijswijk and Zakarin were more prone to crashing because of it.

lenric wrote:Well, if SK had not crashed, we wouldn't certainly be discussing this, but one has to wonder how the hell he had the capacity to win 2/3 times to Chaves in the last 2 stages, when he was weaker than him on all the previous ones.

Exactly.

To be fair the two last Astana team mates were monster climbers


Kangert and Scarponi, the two strongest gregarios in the world.
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Re: Re:

15 May 2017 22:18

V3R1T4S wrote:


LMAO, 3:00 into that video they show the top-10 but also include at the bottom everyone's favorite OBE Knight, Sir BW, who is down at 127th and 2:34:14 behind. :lol:



Hahaha!!! I don't know what's more ridiculous, Landis's performance that day, the fact that Wiggins was so far back and then dominating years later (quite a miraculous transformation, by any stretch of the imagination) or that both of Landis and Wiggins were in involved in the same race, were in the same shot (one we saw riding, while the other we saw his position).
BullsFan22
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Re:

15 May 2017 23:43

Gung Ho Gun wrote:Nibali's recovery was suspicious, but ignoring the crashed Kruijswijk, he only gained around 2:30 on his rivals over 2 mountain stages. Before the 2 mountain stages:
2. Chaves -1:43
3. Valverde -1:20
4. Nibali

After the 2 stages:
1.Nibali
2.Chaves +52
3.Valverde +1:17

A part of his prior deficit was due to a mechanical in the ITT. Landis, on the other hand, came from 11th place, 5-6 minutes behind the trio of Sastre-Kloden-Evans, and gained 6-8 minutes on them in a single stage, all by himself.

It was pretty suspicious even before Kruijswijk's crash. Nibali had lost time through multiple stages, including the ITT. Day after (stage 16) he lost a minute to Chaves again. His form was deteriorating, Kruijswijk & Chaves were gaining time on him. After the last rest day the roles suddenly reversed. Hence the comparison with Landis.
Djoop
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16 May 2017 03:00

Agreed. It was very blatant as a reversal, but performance wise call it a-fourth-of-a-landis at best or something.
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16 May 2017 15:25

Tom Dumoulin just stopped in to say hello.
DanielSong39
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16 May 2017 15:25

Not even close
kingjr
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Re:

16 May 2017 15:32

kingjr wrote:Not even close


Domoulin has ridden 7 GTs before this Giro and only finished 3. Not a great record or a showing of potential for GTs.
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