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The Froome Files, test data only thread

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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

31 Aug 2017 10:46

thehog wrote:I think it's safe to say now that Froome may have lost some fat but he certainly has gained some chemical assistance. This type of engine wasn't always there. It's alarming to see this type of power after a Tour and well above his test figures.

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His base in 2011 and 2012 was much lower than his base since 2013, and his figures this Vuelta still seem to line up with 2011 and 2012, so given that he'd have a higher base now, it's feasible imo for his figures to be like this in the first week of his second GT?

Ofc if we were to compare these figures to pre-2011, that's where the obvious suspicion comes
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 15:47

Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 15:55

what the **** happened to temperature, did he ride into a fire?
Vayerism
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09 Jan 2018 16:05

Surprise, heart rate is already gone, taken off from Strava rides...
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Re:

09 Jan 2018 16:10

Gregga wrote:Surprise, heart rate is already gone, taken off from Strava rides...


How bizarre is that! The magical mystery Dawg show! :cool:
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Re:

09 Jan 2018 16:27

Gregga wrote:Surprise, heart rate is already gone, taken off from Strava rides...

And no power to begin with. But he is clearly doing nice and easy long rides.

Cue swart or somesuch explaining froomes hr is very suppressed in a GT environment (Power not affected ofc). The file from vuelta 2011 TT also had an avg HR in the high 140s from memory. Doubt that file is still online tho. :D
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 16:27

Vayerism wrote:what the **** happened to temperature, did he ride into a fire?

Yeah it looks like he stopped for a coffee at the 125 km mark. No cadence or speed, but the temperature spikes probably from leaving his bike in the sun. It's been mid 30's in Jo-burg the last few days. That or he has to stop mounting his computer near the motor/batteries...

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09 Jan 2018 16:36

Excellent work ! Johan
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 16:37

thehog wrote:Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

Image


This is awesome. I read about Dawg putting his rides on Strava but without the power data. Being new to strava or just forgetting for a moment the attention to details he apparently forgot about his HR. He was also on a normal bike not the "Ventoux" special edition.
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09 Jan 2018 16:41

"So, as she hunkered down in front of the television coverage of one of his individual time trials, she hooked herself up to a heart rate monitor. It revealed that at its peak watching Froome’s effort, her heart was pounding at 171 beats per minute. Later she compared her figures with her man’s data. She discovered the ice cool champion’s heart rate that day had never risen above 167 bpm."

Michelle, Tour de France 2013
Last edited by Rollthedice on 09 Jan 2018 16:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 16:42

Rollthedice wrote:
thehog wrote:Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

Image


This is awesome. I read about Dawg putting his rides on Strava but without the power data. Being new to strava or just forgetting for a moment the attention to details he apparently forgot about his HR. He was also on a normal bike not the "Ventoux" special edition.


Ventoux special edition bike was on the charger it appears :cool:

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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 17:47

thehog wrote:Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

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Without prejudice to the Ventoux 2013 and wider doping debate in general.....trying to draw comparisons between a sudden isolated spike in heart rate aligned with a one off big effort within the first hour of an otherwise low intensity January training ride, and heart rate towards the end of a long GT stage ridden in absolute peak summer form? Well that's tenuous at best.

Most people who've ridden a bike and studied how their HR responds at various times during training cycles would, i suspect, think this all looks within the range of normal.
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09 Jan 2018 18:17

Given the HR nosedives, then explodes into the air and he is not even on a particularly hard point (certainly the speed doesn't do anything), congratulations, you have just learned that HR belts occasionally measure bad data.
Last edited by hazaran on 09 Jan 2018 18:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 18:18

brownbobby wrote:
thehog wrote:Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

Image


Without prejudice to the Ventoux 2013 and wider doping debate in general.....trying to draw comparisons between a sudden isolated spike in heart rate aligned with a one off big effort within the first hour of an otherwise low intensity January training ride, and heart rate towards the end of a long GT stage ridden in absolute peak summer form? Well that's tenuous at best.

Most people who've ridden a bike and studied how their HR responds at various times during training cycles would, i suspect, think this all looks within the range of normal.


What a way to miss the point; Froome on Ventoux maxed out at 161bpm during is 800w attacks. In his book he claims in max heartrate is 165bpm. Here on a long and steady ride up his first climb he consistently goes to 183bpm. What’s up with that? Either 165bpm is not his max and he used a motor on Ventoux or it’s a very long glitch. None the less Froome has now removed the offending evidence.
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Re: The Froome Files, test data only thread

09 Jan 2018 18:34

thehog wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
thehog wrote:Froome is now posting his training rides on Strava. His max heart rate is now 183bpm which strangely is 20 beats more than when he was attacking at 800w on Ventoux! :confused:

Image


Without prejudice to the Ventoux 2013 and wider doping debate in general.....trying to draw comparisons between a sudden isolated spike in heart rate aligned with a one off big effort within the first hour of an otherwise low intensity January training ride, and heart rate towards the end of a long GT stage ridden in absolute peak summer form? Well that's tenuous at best.

Most people who've ridden a bike and studied how their HR responds at various times during training cycles would, i suspect, think this all looks within the range of normal.


What a way to miss the point; Froome on Ventoux maxed out at 161bpm during is 800w attacks. In his book he claims in max heartrate is 165bpm. Here on a long and steady ride up his first climb he consistently goes to 183bpm. What’s up with that? Either 165bpm is not his max and he used a motor on Ventoux or it’s a very long glitch. None the less Froome has now removed the offending evidence.


I got the intended point entirely. You clearly missed my point which was that HR response to effort will vary massively with conditioning. He doesn't 'consistently' go up to 183. There is just a graphical representation of a one off spike followed by an equally sudden drop. There is no significant length of time whatsoever actually spent above 180. The actual max number due to the well known erratic performance of even the best HR monitors was irrelevant in my thinking.

And tbh i'm surprised he uploaded any HR data in the first place, not in the least bit surprised to see it taken down.

Just because 95% of what Froome does is highly suspicious, doesn't mean that 5% of things he does can't be normal. For me this falls into the 5% normal category.
Last edited by brownbobby on 09 Jan 2018 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

09 Jan 2018 18:39

hazaran wrote:Given the HR nosedives, then explodes into the air and he is not even on a particularly hard point (certainly the speed doesn't do anything), congratulations, you have just learned that HR belts occasionally measure bad data.


Whilst i agree entirely with you about the occasional erratic measurements (apparently i hit 230bpm recently, didnt even feel like i was trying :lol: ), the spike does seem to align with the the first and only significant climb of the ride, so im guessing he did put in one big effort on an otherwise controlled zone 2 ride. Wether he actually hit 183 or not is another matter.
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Re: Re:

09 Jan 2018 18:57

brownbobby wrote:
hazaran wrote:Given the HR nosedives, then explodes into the air and he is not even on a particularly hard point (certainly the speed doesn't do anything), congratulations, you have just learned that HR belts occasionally measure bad data.


Whilst i agree entirely with you about the occasional erratic measurements (apparently i hit 230bpm recently, didnt even feel like i was trying :lol: ), the spike does seem to align with the the first and only significant climb of the ride, so im guessing he did put in one big effort on an otherwise controlled zone 2 ride. Wether he actually hit 183 or not is another matter.


This is not a spike though. Spikes last mere seconds. This is a consistent uptick to 183 and held for several kilometers.
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Re: Re:

09 Jan 2018 19:08

thehog wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
hazaran wrote:Given the HR nosedives, then explodes into the air and he is not even on a particularly hard point (certainly the speed doesn't do anything), congratulations, you have just learned that HR belts occasionally measure bad data.


Whilst i agree entirely with you about the occasional erratic measurements (apparently i hit 230bpm recently, didnt even feel like i was trying :lol: ), the spike does seem to align with the the first and only significant climb of the ride, so im guessing he did put in one big effort on an otherwise controlled zone 2 ride. Wether he actually hit 183 or not is another matter.


This is not a spike though. Spikes last mere seconds. This is a consistent uptick to 183 and held for several kilometers.


You're interpreting the data/graph differently to me, i'm seeing a sudden but fairly linear rise to an absolute max of 183 for mere seconds, followed by an equivalent sudden but linear drop back down to 105ish, Between this rise and fall, there is no 'flat' section at the peak which would represent the peak being held for any length of time whatsoever, let alone several kilometres.
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09 Jan 2018 19:08

Whilst BB has a point, I'd be surprised at such a wide variance of MHR between full condition and off season. I think thehog has a good point... If the Ventoux data is correct and the Strava data is correct, then it doesn't make sense.

However, the assumption that Froome has removed the data because it is suspicious might be false. My friends who are serious TTers never put their data on Strava when training seriously.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

09 Jan 2018 19:17

brownbobby wrote:
thehog wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
hazaran wrote:Given the HR nosedives, then explodes into the air and he is not even on a particularly hard point (certainly the speed doesn't do anything), congratulations, you have just learned that HR belts occasionally measure bad data.


Whilst i agree entirely with you about the occasional erratic measurements (apparently i hit 230bpm recently, didnt even feel like i was trying :lol: ), the spike does seem to align with the the first and only significant climb of the ride, so im guessing he did put in one big effort on an otherwise controlled zone 2 ride. Wether he actually hit 183 or not is another matter.


This is not a spike though. Spikes last mere seconds. This is a consistent uptick to 183 and held for several kilometers.


You're interpreting the data/graph differently to me, i'm seeing a sudden but fairly linear rise to an absolute max of 183 for mere seconds, followed by an equivalent sudden but linear drop back down to 105ish, Between this rise and fall, there is no 'flat' section at the peak which would represent the peak being held for any length of time whatsoever, let alone several kilometres.


Look at the distance. The graph is condensed to appear on a single screen. The “glitch” lasts for 10km with rise in gradient. Prior to that between 20km and 30km it rises in line with an increase in the graidant. A glitch is a sudden spark up then down again over a few seconds, if that.

(apologies for the poor marking up, I did on my phone).

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