Log in:  

Register

Motor doping thread

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re:

05 Nov 2017 12:15

absolutely_not wrote:Of course, I was kiding Red_Flanders.
A few pages back in this topic,(and also on twitter) a compilation of Armstrong reaching to his *** or saddle was brought as an "evidence" that he was maybe activating a motors there. There was discussions about the validity of this video since 1/ it is weird but 2/ it doesn't really show anything and in one of the 4 occurrence we can see he is never touching his saddle.
This video of him doing the same thing after the race and from an angle where we can see he only grab his short shows IMO that this gesture is probably just a twitch

I also agree on the absence of evidence from that era. Only Varjas supports that. And, as it was said many times before, he is a very odd character that a lot of people (I include journalists) don't trust
Some people trust him to be fair, but no one was abble to confirm what he says. Even Varjas can't proove most of what he says


What does Varjas say to support it? I've only ever seen where he put a current motor in an old bike, which is evidence of exactly nothing. I may have missed it to be sure.

Sorry, didn't get that you were kidding but more aimed at the preceding commentary anyway. Thx for clarifying!
User avatar red_flanders
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,710
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 06:45

09 Nov 2017 06:21

Phil Gaimon on Motor Doping:
"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That **** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.


"I do think it happened that year a couple times, but as soon as somebody noticed and it became a story nobody did it again. I think it's an absolute clickbait, red herring - even up to the new UCI president [David Lappartient] who is acting like it's a big issue that he is going to get to the bottom of. Anyone on the inside knows it's a joke."


"I wish they had found a more interesting angle, but the reality is it's clickbait. I do think motor doping happened for a minute with one guy, and everyone else keeps bringing it up."
SeriousSam wrote: Peña Cabarga is like Froome's Mount Doom, the place where his great power was forged into fearsome weapon. He was never going to lose here
User avatar silvergrenade
Member
 
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 23 Jan 2016 17:30

09 Nov 2017 10:03

Since I'm also a data scientist, I saw a semi-obvious solution to the obviousness of ,motor doping. You know, where the bike practically accelerates out from under the rider. You could set up a deep learning environment and keep feeding it power meter files from different riders and races. At the end you'd have a set of algorithms that would let the motor control itself. You wouldn't turn it on and off, you'd let the motor decide when to turn on and by how much based on a set of inputs. You'd get the maximum benefit, and it would look all natural.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,489
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

Re:

09 Nov 2017 15:59

silvergrenade wrote:Phil Gaimon on Motor Doping:
"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That **** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.


"I do think it happened that year a couple times, but as soon as somebody noticed and it became a story nobody did it again. I think it's an absolute clickbait, red herring - even up to the new UCI president [David Lappartient] who is acting like it's a big issue that he is going to get to the bottom of. Anyone on the inside knows it's a joke."


"I wish they had found a more interesting angle, but the reality is it's clickbait. I do think motor doping happened for a minute with one guy, and everyone else keeps bringing it up."


And who the hell is Phil Gaimon?!!! Anyone on the inside knows that he's a joke, as a rider, and as a person!
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 479
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

09 Nov 2017 16:14

Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..
"This is the Tour that will determine If I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
User avatar Valv.Piti
Moderator
 
Posts: 7,398
Joined: 03 Aug 2015 00:00
Location: Dinamarca, Aalborg

Re: Re:

09 Nov 2017 16:15

Blanco wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Phil Gaimon on Motor Doping:
"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That **** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.


"I do think it happened that year a couple times, but as soon as somebody noticed and it became a story nobody did it again. I think it's an absolute clickbait, red herring - even up to the new UCI president [David Lappartient] who is acting like it's a big issue that he is going to get to the bottom of. Anyone on the inside knows it's a joke."


"I wish they had found a more interesting angle, but the reality is it's clickbait. I do think motor doping happened for a minute with one guy, and everyone else keeps bringing it up."


And who the hell is Phil Gaimon?!!! Anyone on the inside knows that he's a joke, as a rider, and as a person!


That's a fairly serious accusation, I think you're going to have to back that up.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,497
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

09 Nov 2017 16:24

well... PG has a book to sell, so...
glassmoon
Member
 
Posts: 1,116
Joined: 19 May 2012 08:56

Re: Re:

09 Nov 2017 16:55

Blanco wrote:And who the hell is Phil Gaimon?!!! Anyone on the inside knows that he's a joke, as a rider, and as a person!

For sure he has a book to sell, if being a pro is a joke, what are we?
For the moment, Luigi is tranquilo... really?
User avatar poupou
Member
 
Posts: 702
Joined: 18 Jul 2009 23:27

Re:

09 Nov 2017 17:14

Valv.Piti wrote:Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..


I know. Gaimon became even more annoying saying there are no motors being used today. What a chump.
User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 20,412
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

Re:

09 Nov 2017 18:22

Valv.Piti wrote:Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..

Also this:
https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/924360334583803904

And his response to this reply asking about Tommy D is very telling:
https://twitter.com/JesperCarstens/status/924368145896394753
User avatar LaFlorecita
Veteran
 
Posts: 29,164
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Re: Re:

09 Nov 2017 18:50

King Boonen wrote:
Blanco wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Phil Gaimon on Motor Doping:
"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That **** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.


"I do think it happened that year a couple times, but as soon as somebody noticed and it became a story nobody did it again. I think it's an absolute clickbait, red herring - even up to the new UCI president [David Lappartient] who is acting like it's a big issue that he is going to get to the bottom of. Anyone on the inside knows it's a joke."


"I wish they had found a more interesting angle, but the reality is it's clickbait. I do think motor doping happened for a minute with one guy, and everyone else keeps bringing it up."


And who the hell is Phil Gaimon?!!! Anyone on the inside knows that he's a joke, as a rider, and as a person!


That's a fairly serious accusation, I think you're going to have to back that up.


To back what up? That he's a joke of a person? Is this not clear enough after his numerous posts where he's accusing people left and right about doping and motor doping, while his best buddy is caught not once, but twice, at that same doping, but somehow that's different from this cases where the guilt wasn't even confirmed! Freaking clown!
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 479
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

Re: Re:

09 Nov 2017 19:24

Blanco wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Blanco wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:Phil Gaimon on Motor Doping:
"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That **** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.


"I do think it happened that year a couple times, but as soon as somebody noticed and it became a story nobody did it again. I think it's an absolute clickbait, red herring - even up to the new UCI president [David Lappartient] who is acting like it's a big issue that he is going to get to the bottom of. Anyone on the inside knows it's a joke."


"I wish they had found a more interesting angle, but the reality is it's clickbait. I do think motor doping happened for a minute with one guy, and everyone else keeps bringing it up."


And who the hell is Phil Gaimon?!!! Anyone on the inside knows that he's a joke, as a rider, and as a person!


That's a fairly serious accusation, I think you're going to have to back that up.


To back what up? That he's a joke of a person? Is this not clear enough after his numerous posts where he's accusing people left and right about doping and motor doping, while his best buddy is caught not once, but twice, at that same doping, but somehow that's different from this cases where the guilt wasn't even confirmed! Freaking clown!

It’s highlighted in bold so I think it’s pretty obvious. Everyone else managed to do it.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,497
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: Re:

09 Nov 2017 20:23

LaFlorecita wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..

Also this:
https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/924360334583803904

And his response to this reply asking about Tommy D is very telling:
https://twitter.com/JesperCarstens/status/924368145896394753

That last one is pure comedy gold. Why don't the UCI just hire Gaimon to sort out the cheaters from the clean ones? Apparently the man can do it all just by observation. :rolleyes:
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
User avatar Cance > TheRest
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,898
Joined: 17 Apr 2013 18:38
Location: Denmark

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2017 09:18

Cance > TheRest wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..

Also this:
https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/924360334583803904

And his response to this reply asking about Tommy D is very telling:
https://twitter.com/JesperCarstens/status/924368145896394753

That last one is pure comedy gold. Why don't the UCI just hire Gaimon to sort out the cheaters from the clean ones? Apparently the man can do it all just by observation. :rolleyes:

Well, it's not that hard to do it by observation.
Gaimon's problem is selective blindness.
Cancellara, 100% certain a motor. Hesjedal, come on just journalists looking for sensation, nothing to see there.
User avatar Gung Ho Gun
Member
 
Posts: 467
Joined: 15 Jul 2013 14:46

10 Nov 2017 12:01

He's a nobody, he's jealous of riders who did make it, he's bitter, he wants to sell his book...
I mean, at least come up with original stuff, folks.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,423
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2017 12:34

Cance > TheRest wrote:That last one is pure comedy gold. Why don't the UCI just hire Gaimon to sort out the cheaters from the clean ones? Apparently the man can do it all just by observation. :rolleyes:
As can more than a few posting on this very forum. All they need to know is there's been a crash and they can diagnose Tramadol use. All they need to see is a wheel spinning to be sure it's a motor. All they need is to see someone riding uphill fast to decide it was EPO. Let's not knock the powers of observation...
User avatar fmk_RoI
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,022
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

10 Nov 2017 13:38

The UCI is investigating because PG wrote it in his book? That strategy should save the UCI a lot of money, they don't have to do any leg work on their own, just wait for someone to write about it. They could get years worth of info here on the forum! :)
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,449
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2017 13:45

fmk_RoI wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:That last one is pure comedy gold. Why don't the UCI just hire Gaimon to sort out the cheaters from the clean ones? Apparently the man can do it all just by observation. :rolleyes:
As can more than a few posting on this very forum. All they need to know is there's been a crash and they can diagnose Tramadol use. All they need to see is a wheel spinning to be sure it's a motor. All they need is to see someone riding uphill fast to decide it was EPO. Let's not knock the powers of observation...


No different from posters trying to talk others into believing there has never ever been motor doping in the pro peloton. And as for diagnosing tramadol use, it has come out in investigations and witnesses from BC and Sky that they offered tramadol freely even if one has no head ache or sore knee. They clearly think it's performance enhancing to want their riders to take it for reasons other than that for which it is produced and intended for and that is pain. Common sense brother common sense. You keep preaching but I doubt you've converted anyone here.
Craigee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 06:18

Re: Re:

10 Nov 2017 13:47

Gung Ho Gun wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:Gosh I hate Gaimon. First Mancebo, now this, yet still buddies with Tommy D. Ugh..

Also this:
https://twitter.com/philgaimon/status/924360334583803904

And his response to this reply asking about Tommy D is very telling:
https://twitter.com/JesperCarstens/status/924368145896394753

That last one is pure comedy gold. Why don't the UCI just hire Gaimon to sort out the cheaters from the clean ones? Apparently the man can do it all just by observation. :rolleyes:

Well, it's not that hard to do it by observation.
Gaimon's problem is selective blindness.
Cancellara, 100% certain a motor. Hesjedal, come on just journalists looking for sensation, nothing to see there.

That depends on what is being observed. It is in fact very hard to tell just by observation in its raw form. With raw observation it's difficult to tell if the observed pattern is caused by a motor or if it is caused by something else, since there's a big distance from what you are observing to what you want to measure (i.e. motor or not) . Now, if any of you, or Gaimon for that matter, had a thermal x-ray built into your eyes so you could identify motors inside the riders' bikes, observation would be a lot more profitable. Alternatively, if you could make calculations based on the images showing that what is going on has to be caused by a motor, it would also serve as better evidence.

I agree that selective blindness is another problem, and especially when paired with observation on data (data which in this case happen to be very difficult to draw conclusions from).
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
User avatar Cance > TheRest
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,898
Joined: 17 Apr 2013 18:38
Location: Denmark

Re:

10 Nov 2017 13:52

jmdirt wrote:The UCI is investigating because PG wrote it in his book? That strategy should save the UCI a lot of money, they don't have to do any leg work on their own, just wait for someone to write about it. They could get years worth of info here on the forum! :)
Verbruggen, McQuaid, even Cookson, they liked to pretend books didn't exist...crazy as this is, it counts as progress, of a sort.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,022
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], yaco and 24 guests

Back to top