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Motor doping thread

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 12:54

Craigee wrote:Cav took 8 seconds off his 4km PB. And he had the cheek to say he was disappointed not to break Wiggins' Olympic record? The female sprinters couldn't qualify a team for the team sprint but they turned up in Rio and were top qualifiers in the Sprint. Trott had done how many omniums and IPs? Plenty but she takes seconds off her PB for the individual pursuit. Skinner improved out of sight in 2016 from average to a brilliant 9.7 then slips back again this year to 15th fastest. Exactly the same with Katy Marchant. Slipped back to 16th this year. Something stinks for sure.

If the other countries don't demand bike checks and done properly with good testing equipment in Tokyo then they get what they deserve. They were all suspicious of GB in Rio and it was all about motors.


These but more particularlarly Cav's performance are of concern. The concept of a mature elite athlete taking 8 sec off his pb from World Champs to Olympic games in the same year is eye-watering. To anyone connected with elite athletes this should set off the hooters, sirens and flashing red lights. If, it goes along with what we were told that the UCI advised that there would be no checks for motors at the Olympic track events, it did open the gates.

The more we find out the more the story moves from right out there with the "faked moon landings" to "why the hell wouldn't they?" if the technology was there, others were doing it and the International Federation had taken testing in house and the guy running it there was leaking forthcoming test events to the management of the pro teams.
Freddythefrog
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09 Sep 2017 16:50

Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817
User avatar Benotti69
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:01

Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

That was what I was thinking. Someone like Bardet looks like a natural climber to me. Poels looks like a thin man on a motorcycle.
La fatica in montagna per me è poesia (Fatigue in the mountains is poetry to me) - Marco Pantani
Van een ezel kunt ge geen koerspaard maken (You can't turn a donkey into a race horse) - Patrick Lefevere
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 17:51

Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817


exactly. I saw it on the telly and litterally laughed out loud.
Arrowfarm
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09 Sep 2017 17:59

I need to find an untouched version of those spots in the race because those videos look manipulated. If it looks like that live, it would be pretty hard to argue against some type of booster.

EDIT: After watching the videos a few more times, WP seems to be the only thing that speeds up, CF and IZ don't seem to change, nor do any of the people in the crowd. That doesn't rule out manipulation, but it does make it less likely.
Last edited by jmdirt on 09 Sep 2017 18:04, edited 1 time in total.
jmdirt
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Re: Motor doping thread

09 Sep 2017 18:00

Yes i think we see it .. hidden in plain sight ..
User avatar dolophonic
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 18:04

Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 18:08

ScienceIsCool wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson

That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?
noddy69
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 18:10

noddy69 wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson

That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?


Nope. Watch the crowd.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 18:16

noddy69 wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson

That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?


I didn't speed up the footage, this is how it was broadcasted on Eurosport.
https://streamable.com/25rph
Slangeveld
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Re: Motor doping thread

09 Sep 2017 18:28

There's nothing doctored about that footage. That's exactly as ridiculous as it looked live. When I saw Poels take that line it looked like something you'd only see at a monster truck demolition rally. Glad he didn't tip over backwards.
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09 Sep 2017 18:33

The other LOL moment from the live coverage was Froome closing down Poels after the hairpin with 1km to go. I doubt I was the only one who chuckled and said "yeah, whatever, do what you like, it's all a farce at this point."

https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/906549780159123456
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 19:28

Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817


I can understand why other posters doubt this short clip. All doubt would be removed if a version of the clip with the Belgian commentary would be available. The way they reacted really tells us everything. If memory serves, "Even those slopes aren't steep enough for Wout Poels." and "Never seen before on the Angliru." were part of their comments.

After this hairpin, I switched off the tv. I just wasn't interested enough to see if the two motors could overtake Contador.


Another thing that caught my eye, but more jokingly, is the comment on Cycling News' live ticker a couple of stages back, when Froome actually lost some time: "Froome's eyes are glued to his stem, but his battery seems flat."
HSNHSN
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 19:30

noddy69 wrote:That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?

OMG! The fact you think it looks sped up says it all! That is exactly how ridiculous it is.

John Swanson
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09 Sep 2017 20:30

I did not believe in motors in pro teams for long since in my opinion someone would open his mouth. But this year Vuelta opened my eyes. Froome after one stage riding after the finish exactly the same way like MotoGP riders in paddock - same moves, same style and Sky's performance today, it is really ridiculous. I am just afraid that if this will come out it will be the end of the sport :(.

And have to add that Riis on Hautacam looked absolutely natural compare to what I have seen in Vuelta ... .
lartiste
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09 Sep 2017 20:52

If anyone who has ever ridden a bike doubts that motors do not exist in the pro peleton, well they only need watch the performances of Froome and Poels up Angliru. Took back 30+ seconds in the space of 1km from about 2.5km to go. The way Poels motored up that steep hairpin bend on the short side was insane. They must have some hi-tech engineers on that team, I've never seen such team dominance from a single team in back to back grand tours as this summer.
ontheroad
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:54

ontheroad wrote:If anyone who has ever ridden a bike doubts that motors do not exist in the pro peleton, well they only need watch the performances of Froome and Poels up Angliru. Took back 30+ seconds in the space of 1km from about 2.5km to go. The way Poels motored up that steep hairpin bend on the short side was insane. They must have some hi-tech engineers on that team, I've never seen such team dominance from a single team in back to back grand tours as this summer.


Boardman started the hi-tech thing with Lotus car for his track hour records.

But small electronic motors were always going to be used in bikes at some stage, and it usually starts with pros.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 21:00

noddy69 wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson

That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?

That was my first thought too, but I watched it about five more times and the only thing that speeds up is WP. CF, IZ, and the crowd seem to stay the same. That doesn't rule out manipulation, but it rules out simple manipulation. To make only one part of a video fast requires a bit more knowledge and equipment. Do let us know what you recorded footage looks like because I can't get the link to work from the post above.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 21:03

Benotti69 wrote:
ontheroad wrote:If anyone who has ever ridden a bike doubts that motors do not exist in the pro peleton, well they only need watch the performances of Froome and Poels up Angliru. Took back 30+ seconds in the space of 1km from about 2.5km to go. The way Poels motored up that steep hairpin bend on the short side was insane. They must have some hi-tech engineers on that team, I've never seen such team dominance from a single team in back to back grand tours as this summer.


Boardman started the hi-tech thing with Lotus car for his track hour records.

But small electronic motors were always going to be used in bikes at some stage, and it usually starts with pros.


Yes, indeed he even raised concerns about 6/7 years ago. I've no doubt that more than sky have used them, but they do appear to have got a jump on the best technology whether it's through the BC link to McLaren F1 but how long can this charade go on for I'm not sure. In the past some big names were busted for PEDs but under Cookson nothing will happen and more and more riders will be tempted to hook up an engine. It used to be the team doctors who had the keys to the kingdom, at this rate it will be the team engineers.
ontheroad
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2017 21:04

ScienceIsCool wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817

...that was the first bit of Vuelta that I've watched this year. <shake my head> But yeah, hub motors are so not real.

John Swanson

Even though you're TiC, I agree, that isn't a hub motor. But I've yet to see anything that indicates anything but a booster of some kind in WP's bike. IMO they are still using the ST/BB motor.
jmdirt
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