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Motor doping thread

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Motor doping thread

09 Sep 2017 21:55

sky went full MOtard
chuuurles
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 01:19

ScienceIsCool wrote:
noddy69 wrote:That looks doctored and footage sped up at the right moment. Have it recorded and watched back a number of times.
Not saying they don't exist just the footage is misleading- watch it back again and you can see where it speeds up- I think ?

OMG! The fact you think it looks sped up says it all! That is exactly how ridiculous it is.

John Swanson


It's difficult to judge angles when the camera is dutched (not levelled) on a helicopter.
adamfo
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Re:

10 Sep 2017 01:28

TeflonDub wrote:The other LOL moment from the live coverage was Froome closing down Poels after the hairpin with 1km to go. I doubt I was the only one who chuckled and said "yeah, whatever, do what you like, it's all a farce at this point."

https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/906549780159123456


Now level your screen up so the spectators are vertical and you will see that was a ramp less steep than you think
adamfo
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 07:57

adamfo wrote:
TeflonDub wrote:The other LOL moment from the live coverage was Froome closing down Poels after the hairpin with 1km to go. I doubt I was the only one who chuckled and said "yeah, whatever, do what you like, it's all a farce at this point."

https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/906549780159123456


Now level your screen up so the spectators are vertical and you will see that was a ramp less steep than you think


I think what you mean is 'just tilt your screen to one side and pretend it is a flat section' and everything will look normal.From about 2.5km to go Froome and Poels took about 40 seconds which included the steepest ramps of the stage including that hairpin bend which Poels motored around and which gets more ridiculous every time you see it. Up there with Froome Ventoux for ridiculousness. Seated climbing with ridiculous cadences are conducive to motor usage. Particularly so on 20% ramps.
ontheroad
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10 Sep 2017 10:13

Lol @ Angliru. I wasn't entirely convinced about widespread /common motor usage. Ax3 and Ventoux were exceptions. Angliru is another exception. Vuelta is getting much harder to watch. After Horner I found it hard to watch. Flicked it on again this year, and wished I hadn't bothered. Anyone who still believes in Sky is beyond help.
heart_attack_man
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10 Sep 2017 10:14

Should also be pointed out that Froome and Poels only gained 34 seconds on Nibs, who was possibly riding with a broken rib
User avatar PremierAndrew
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10 Sep 2017 14:36

Just like with doping, its not just one team using boosters. Part of what makes omerta work is that everyone is in. I have to admit that I thought the ruse was up with the seat tube/BB motor, but I'm not so sure now.

The strategy is, when and how much to use your booster. If you use it up and crash you won't have any boost to help you get back. If you use too much on an early climb you won't have any for the finish climb. If you use too much on the last climb you won't have any for the flat run in to the finish.
jmdirt
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Re:

10 Sep 2017 14:49

jmdirt wrote:Just like with doping, its not just one team using boosters. Part of what makes omerta work is that everyone is in. I have to admit that I thought the ruse was up with the seat tube/BB motor, but I'm not so sure now.

The strategy is, when and how much to use your booster. If you use it up and crash you won't have any boost to help you get back. If you use too much on an early climb you won't have any for the finish climb. If you use too much on the last climb you won't have any for the flat run in to the finish.


...and just like blood dopers, some riders are better responders than others. For instance, Froome responds very well to riding with a motor, it keeps him from having the hang onto team cars to get up big mountains.
Huapango
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Re:

10 Sep 2017 14:55

PremierAndrew wrote:Should also be pointed out that Froome and Poels only gained 34 seconds on Nibs, who was possibly riding with a broken rib


On my way to the train station (for work) I recently fell hard on my face and broke 2 of my front teeth severely and had a huge swollen lip that was bleeding. What did I do? Still rode my bike to the train station, took the train (half an hour), walked to the metro station and took the metro (5 minutes) and then walked to work (20-25 minutes). Once there they told me to go to the emergency care immediately because I was actually planning to still work the whole day.

Got to stay at home for 3 days because of that.

What I'm trying to say is: you can do a lot on adrenaline.
User avatar El Pistolero
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 15:23

ontheroad wrote:
adamfo wrote:
TeflonDub wrote:The other LOL moment from the live coverage was Froome closing down Poels after the hairpin with 1km to go. I doubt I was the only one who chuckled and said "yeah, whatever, do what you like, it's all a farce at this point."

https://twitter.com/bignickguff/status/906549780159123456


Now level your screen up so the spectators are vertical and you will see that was a ramp less steep than you think


I think what you mean is 'just tilt your screen to one side and pretend it is a flat section' and everything will look normal.


FFS be a bit more observant: people do not stand up leaning 30 degrees :rolleyes:

Judging speed is difficult. In motorsport a fixed camera position often zooms out slowly as the vehicles approach, pans as they corner then zooms in to maintain the frame. With a helicopter you add all sorts of variables, for example, hovering but creeping backwards gives the appearance of the moving object being filmed moving through the frame faster.
adamfo
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10 Sep 2017 16:10

Judging whether the bike sways is not difficult. It's actually impossible to prevent the bike from swaying if you make a sudden acceleration. You're applying sudden downforce on one side of the bike.

One easy sign of a motor is when a rider suddenly puts in a 600+ watt acceleration while the pedals seem to turn themselves. Look at footage of Femke Van den Driessche in the cyclocross event.
DanielSong39
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Re: Motor doping thread

12 Sep 2017 01:05

chuuurles wrote:sky went full MOtard


Nice one.
I'm far removed from riding up hills in a 39-27 and have no idea what gear ratios these guys are using, but that does not look normal. Especially when you consider the gradient of the climb which was near the very end of a GT.
Guy looks like he got a huge push from a spectator at the steepest part of the incline so he could have a chat with the Vroomster.
User avatar the delgados
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12 Sep 2017 15:37

It's amazing how they sped up the footage for only the one rider. These modern computerz...
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 17:16

Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817


Poels in that clip leaves me zero doubt that a motor was engaged. He:
- speeds up on the steepest section of the hairpin
- takes an unnatural line
- almost loses his back wheel
- drops Zakarin like a fly
- has a chat about the weather with Froome as he goes by
- doesn't change cadence
User avatar Random Direction
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12 Sep 2017 17:44

and dont forget he also had the time to turn around and see what was happening behind him
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 18:34

red_flanders wrote:It's amazing how they sped up the footage for only the one rider. These modern computerz...

As I noted up thread, that can be done, but it requires more than photoshop. I'm not sure what the cost for that level of software/hardware is, but I would guess that not too many people have it. Pixar could do it, but they don't post bike races on YouTube. :D
jmdirt
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12 Sep 2017 19:28

One that caught my eye and again could be just an illusion is in this bsp from Orica-Scott. Look at around 4min 03secs, when Froome accelerates to close the gap, but cadence seems to be the same. I guess he could have dropped a couple of gears, but it just looks weird. https://youtu.be/RNjy08DHU-w
TheDuke
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 19:37

TheDuke wrote:One that caught my eye and again could be just an illusion is in this bsp from Orica-Scott. Look at around 4min 03secs, when Froome accelerates to close the gap, but cadence seems to be the same. I guess he could have dropped a couple of gears, but it just looks weird. https://youtu.be/RNjy08DHU-w



Use this link:

https://youtu.be/RNjy08DHU-w?t=4m1s
User avatar thehog
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13 Sep 2017 09:48

Surely someone out there can analyse this footage and calculate if they (SKY) are using a motor ?

I thought it was odd that Froome was so certain he would never be caught doping....he knew it would be so hard to detect and be caught.
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Re: Re:

13 Sep 2017 13:29

Random Direction wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Froome and Poels today super motored!!!!!

Look at Poels talking to Froome as he goes past on the steep part of the corner like it was flat. FFS!!!!!!!!!


https://twitter.com/Archidux/status/906557462580514817


Poels in that clip leaves me zero doubt that a motor was engaged. He:
- speeds up on the steepest section of the hairpin
- takes an unnatural line
- almost loses his back wheel
- drops Zakarin like a fly
- has a chat about the weather with Froome as he goes by
- doesn't change cadence


The Poels clip is the most obvious televised incident I've seen indicating motor doping yet. Worse than Cancellara, Froome Ventoux or anywhere else. You have summed it up well. Short of detecting a physical engine it's as obvious a case of motor doping as I've seen. So much so that I haven't even heard any of the usual sky sycophant's even try to defend it. You can't.
ontheroad
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