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Motor doping thread

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

31 Mar 2018 20:28

I should have mentioned that one tell-tale sign of hub motors in general use would be the adoption of a particular wheel system or hub by individual riders. Especially where it deviates from the normal sponsor. That's because any hub motor would be intrinsically designed around a single hub. I have no idea if this is the case in the general peloton.

John Swanson
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Re: Re:

31 Mar 2018 21:12

King Boonen wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:That's why I thought if it was like an big rig or big rv that you can drive through with the scanners on each side and the roof to scan all the bikes at the same time and than drive to the next stage :D

The electronic tags are cool too.


You can’t drive through, you’d need fairly high energy x-rays so you can’t have people in it every time you do it. You’d need them to get out. Also, not every frame and wheel is carried on/in the cars so you’d need to make it big enough to drive the trucks through unless everything is going to get wheeled in and out. It would be a logistical nightmare.

What would be good is if they scanned the top 3 on the stage, the top 3 on GT and the teams of the top 3 on GT. Expand it out to the helpers. The top 3s can be done while they are in anti-doping control and the team makes as they come in. It’s a maximum of 27 bikes (24 for teams and GC top 3 and max 3 more for stage winners).


Interestingly, I just read about such a scanner in a completely unrelated subject. In the port of Boston they recently installed some of these devices to control the imported goods without actually having to access and test them diectly. They detect the secondary x-rays which are characteristic for every element with what it is possible to e.g. distinguish white powder from white powder..
To get back to topic, there are actually x-ray scanners which are big enough to accomodate whole trucks but they are of course stationary at port exit. I suspect it could be tricky to make those trasportable, however, if you managed to do that, the teams could just drive their cars and trucks through the scanner in the morning and head off to the race while some people analyze the data.
The story I read was in the current National Geographic magazine, by the way (April 2018, at least in Germany).
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Re: Re:

01 Apr 2018 09:51

Sestriere wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:That's why I thought if it was like an big rig or big rv that you can drive through with the scanners on each side and the roof to scan all the bikes at the same time and than drive to the next stage :D

The electronic tags are cool too.


You can’t drive through, you’d need fairly high energy x-rays so you can’t have people in it every time you do it. You’d need them to get out. Also, not every frame and wheel is carried on/in the cars so you’d need to make it big enough to drive the trucks through unless everything is going to get wheeled in and out. It would be a logistical nightmare.

What would be good is if they scanned the top 3 on the stage, the top 3 on GT and the teams of the top 3 on GT. Expand it out to the helpers. The top 3s can be done while they are in anti-doping control and the team makes as they come in. It’s a maximum of 27 bikes (24 for teams and GC top 3 and max 3 more for stage winners).


Interestingly, I just read about such a scanner in a completely unrelated subject. In the port of Boston they recently installed some of these devices to control the imported goods without actually having to access and test them diectly. They detect the secondary x-rays which are characteristic for every element with what it is possible to e.g. distinguish white powder from white powder..
To get back to topic, there are actually x-ray scanners which are big enough to accomodate whole trucks but they are of course stationary at port exit. I suspect it could be tricky to make those trasportable, however, if you managed to do that, the teams could just drive their cars and trucks through the scanner in the morning and head off to the race while some people analyze the data.
The story I read was in the current National Geographic magazine, by the way (April 2018, at least in Germany).

Could they not just tag the bikes (possibly with gps trrackers) so that if there is suspicion they can test individual bikes. If they had to have GPS tagging on the day of the race then would hinder any tampering as you could potentially track a bikes movements. Would have stopped the movistar fiasco.
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Re: Motor doping thread

01 Apr 2018 14:46

Terpstra riding with Cancellara's bike? :lol:
Max Rockatansky
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01 Apr 2018 15:14

QSF deploying motors in droves this year after they worked wonders for Gilbert in last year's RVV.
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01 Apr 2018 15:36

So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.
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Re:

01 Apr 2018 15:42

red_flanders wrote:So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.


Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.
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Re: Re:

01 Apr 2018 18:23

thehog wrote:
red_flanders wrote:So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.


Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.


Indeed. Seeing Gilbert do that was hilarious given how he normally wins races

NT's effort today is exactly how he normally wins races. Not saying he's clean. But it passes the sniff test
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Re: Re:

01 Apr 2018 21:15

Wiggo's Package wrote:
thehog wrote:
red_flanders wrote:So winning a big race when you have complete tactical control now means motor accusations. No weird accelerations, no odd bike changes, no spinning wheels. Just a completely normal win in a race that wasn't as hard as it usually is.

Sad that the idiots who have used motors have made created a climate for such ridiculous comments.


Agreed. Gilbert from 55km out, yes, NT with under 20km, no.


Indeed. Seeing Gilbert do that was hilarious given how he normally wins races

NT's effort today is exactly how he normally wins races. Not saying he's clean. But it passes the sniff test


Gilbert was mental last year... just mental :confused:
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02 Apr 2018 16:10

Museeuw launched atacks from that far out with good old fashioned dope in much harder races. I don’t know that Gilbert had a motor. Maybe, it’s entirely possible, but I don’t see any evidence of it.
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03 Apr 2018 08:15

Not entirely moto doping related, but yesterday in the Flemish program De Kleedkamer Nick Nuyens, Scheirlinckx, Boonen and Leukemans all said how Cancellara was not well liked in the peloton and thought he was the patron while the rest didn't like it. Boonen said "ask any of his former teammates, almost nobody likes him. You rarely see this."
The sadness of the world has different ways of getting to people, but it seems to succeed almost every time
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Re:

03 Apr 2018 15:30

Bardamu wrote:Not entirely moto doping related, but yesterday in the Flemish program De Kleedkamer Nick Nuyens, Scheirlinckx, Boonen and Leukemans all said how Cancellara was not well liked in the peloton and thought he was the patron while the rest didn't like it. Boonen said "ask any of his former teammates, almost nobody likes him. You rarely see this."


Interesting. Not surprised, as his antics on a particular rain-soaked descent, among other incidents where he was whining and purporting to speak for the entire peloton (and clearly wasn't) turned me off of him.
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08 Apr 2018 08:59

The sadness of the world has different ways of getting to people, but it seems to succeed almost every time
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Re:

08 Apr 2018 15:24

Bardamu wrote:https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.


He’d be an idiot not to. Interesting that he’s public with it.
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Re:

08 Apr 2018 15:31

Bardamu wrote:https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.
Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2018 15:51

fmk_RoI wrote:
Bardamu wrote:https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.
Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes.

I for one fail to understand the distinction youre making
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2018 16:10

fmk_RoI wrote:
Bardamu wrote:https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.
Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?

Oh I know he also said that as the guy who finished second it is not for him to comment and that he probably just answered some questions. But some years ago he always answered with "Cancellara was just stronger, I don't want to hear about these allegations" but apparently his doubts have increased.
The sadness of the world has different ways of getting to people, but it seems to succeed almost every time
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2018 16:14

Bardamu wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
Bardamu wrote:https://www.rtbf.be/sport/cyclisme/detail_boonen-quand-j-ai-realise-que-c-etait-les-200-derniers-metres-de-ma-vie-je-n-ai-pas-pu-lancer-mon-sprint?id=9886333

Boonen claims again to have some doubts on Cancellara. Not sure what to think of this.
Where does he say he has doubt? He's asked if there is any doubt and says yes. That's just a statement of the bleeding obvious: there is doubt, look at the amount of chatter here and elsewhere about it. He then says that, as the guy who finished second, it's not for him to comment. Could you perhaps be putting words into his mouth?

Oh I know he also said that as the guy who finished second it is not for him to comment and that he probably just answered some questions. But some years ago he always answered with "Cancellara was just stronger, I don't want to hear about these allegations" but apparently his doubts have increased.
Again, you are putting words into the man's mouth and hearing what you want to hear. Nowhere does he say he has doubts. He acknowledges that other people have doubts: one more time for you, that's just a statement of the bleeding obvious, as anyone who reads any cycling media would have to admit.
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08 Apr 2018 16:21

Maybe you're right and I'm making too much of a relatively neutral comment.
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Re:

08 Apr 2018 16:22

Bardamu wrote:Maybe you're right and I'm making too much of a relatively neutral answer.
Bingo...
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