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Motor doping thread

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Re: Re:

22 Jun 2018 01:49

Marmot wrote:
simoni wrote:
Marmot wrote:Is it possible that the motor isn't in the bike, but rather on the rider? For example, could something be fashioned from an electroactive polymer that is sufficiently thin and flexible that it can be hidden under the bike shorts and, with electrical stimulus, help drive the upper legs down (or help pull them up)? If so, using such a device would possibly not require collaboration with the team (at least not to the same extent or with greater prospects for credible deniability from the team), and wouldn't be detected if the bike and the rider's bodily fluids are the only two things being tested.

I can imagine that using such a device might take some practice, especially to synchronise the stimulation with the gearing on the bike. Also, in order not to injure/bruise the rider, it might be better to have it work at lower levels of force, but higher frequency. Could such a device explain a donkey-to-racehorse transformation (which even took the rider's team by surprise), egg-beater cadence, occasional yo-yoing and crashing going uphill (i.e. synchronisation problems), etc.?


So what you're suggesting, basically, is some sort of thin robotic exo-skeleton powerful and strong enough to make a material difference to pedalling force but thin enough not to be obvious underneath closing designed to be worn as closely fitting to the body as possible? Hmm.


Yes. Of course, apart from the issue you mention, it also needs to look like something that could legitimately be there, just in case the wrong part of the clothing is torn open by a crash (e.g. kinesthetic tape). Clearly, it's not very plausible. But I wonder how much less plausible it is than squeezing a motor into a hub alongside everything else that needs to be in the hub, without the hub increasing in size to any meaningful extent.


Short answer is no. Long answer is nope. Any type of reactive material has a small percentage of contraction. To make it useful you need the type of leverage that tendons and ligaments provide. Lots of other problems too.
ScienceIsCool
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22 Jun 2018 09:27

I think Marmot might be onto something.

But rather than a mechanical exoskeleton, I think we might be talking a subcutaneous system, with a process driven by contraction and relaxation. The power circuitry could then be based elsewhere in the body, in the chest region, for example. And rather than needing recharging electrically, it could be replenished with organic matter. A further advantage is that this could be created from carbon based components, and therefore indetectable by the UCI scanning equipment.

Yep: I reckon they might all be using something like this.
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22 Jun 2018 09:28

But does Chris Froome dream of electric sheep?
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Re:

22 Jun 2018 10:00

King Boonen wrote:But does Chris Froome dream of electric sheep?
Please let's not get into an analysis of Froome's dreams. We all know the Freudian undertones of dreaming about pet pythons and bunny outfits, we don't need to talk about it.
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Re: Re:

22 Jun 2018 11:11

fmk_RoI wrote:
King Boonen wrote:But does Chris Froome dream of electric sheep?
Please let's not get into an analysis of Froome's dreams. We all know the Freudian undertones of dreaming about pet pythons and bunny outfits, we don't need to talk about it.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_Sheep%3F
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Re: Re:

22 Jun 2018 12:14

aphronesis wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
King Boonen wrote:But does Chris Froome dream of electric sheep?
Please let's not get into an analysis of Froome's dreams. We all know the Freudian undertones of dreaming about pet pythons and bunny outfits, we don't need to talk about it.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_Sheep%3F
Talk about stating the bleeding obvious...
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Re:

22 Jun 2018 13:57

Armchair cyclist wrote:I think Marmot might be onto something.

But rather than a mechanical exoskeleton, I think we might be talking a subcutaneous system, with a process driven by contraction and relaxation. The power circuitry could then be based elsewhere in the body, in the chest region, for example. And rather than needing recharging electrically, it could be replenished with organic matter. A further advantage is that this could be created from carbon based components, and therefore indetectable by the UCI scanning equipment.

Yep: I reckon they might all be using something like this.


Very good ;)
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22 Jun 2018 15:09

Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.
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Re:

22 Jun 2018 16:45

Ripper wrote:Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.

That’s just what someone who was in on the exoskeleton doping would say...
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22 Jun 2018 17:32

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Mark L
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Re:

22 Jun 2018 20:44

Ripper wrote:Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.


I think Marmot is having a good laugh leveraging the willingness of Clinic denizens to believe in the possibility of the outlandish. I know I enjoyed it.
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Re: Re:

22 Jun 2018 21:10

JosephK wrote:
Ripper wrote:Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.


I think Marmot is having a good laugh leveraging the willingness of Clinic denizens to believe in the possibility of the outlandish. I know I enjoyed it.

Let's hope. :)
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Re: Re:

22 Jun 2018 21:11

King Boonen wrote:
Ripper wrote:Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.

That’s just what someone who was in on the exoskeleton doping would say...

I'm not saying anything about engines that could be propelling me into breakaways in my imagination. :p
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22 Jun 2018 22:21

Alberto testing Froome's bike for TDF :p
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Re:

23 Jun 2018 00:18

Ripper wrote:Oh good grief. I'm all for brainstorming but no, there are no exoskeletons.


According to Benotti there are. He described Froome as a "stick insect". Insects have exoskeletons.

QED.
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Re:

23 Jun 2018 06:09

Armchair cyclist wrote:I think Marmot might be onto something.

But rather than a mechanical exoskeleton, I think we might be talking a subcutaneous system, with a process driven by contraction and relaxation. The power circuitry could then be based elsewhere in the body, in the chest region, for example. And rather than needing recharging electrically, it could be replenished with organic matter. A further advantage is that this could be created from carbon based components, and therefore indetectable by the UCI scanning equipment.

Yep: I reckon they might all be using something like this.


Hmmmm .... interesting.

Any chance that Ice-9 is involved?
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03 Jul 2018 21:00

Let's get this thread revved up for the TdF: Someone is going to see a wheel spinning on the roof of a team car and post it as proof that the magic motor exists... :surprised: :lol:
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Re:

04 Jul 2018 12:48

Freddythefrog wrote:Lapartient knows that the roof will fall in if a top rider is proven to be using a motor. Circ was 2013 and was quite clear that motors were in use.

The technology is all there if they wanted to catch some riders. Years ago Stade Two had a motorbike with IR camera. A glowing bottom 4” of seat tube – how the hell can anyone explain that – a hot drink stored in a secret extra water bottle location ? How easy would it have been to have a couple of motorbikes following Friday's stage and showing live IR footage from the bikes ? A few static IR cameras at key locations on hiarpins where the lead riders go round in near single file. It is dead easy. The fact that it is so easy and yet we had years of obfuscation with IPads that didn't work and all sorts of BS, as every little pathetic increment of detection technology was telegraphed months in advance so teams could react, tells us very clearly. The authorities know about the problem, they have the means to solve it but cannot solve it.

Why can't they solve it ? That is the critical question. It just has to be because some in authority are so compromised, to do so would bring the whole show to an end and that is not in anyone’s interest.


Nonsense. IR guns on motorbikes, from cars and at the side of the road have all been seen operational on 3 week races before. Nothing was found hence we have moved back to the x-ray tent which was used a few years ago too. Nothing has ever been found on a grand tour by any method including pulling the bottom bracket, looking down the seat tube and checking the rear hub and rim.
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Re:

04 Jul 2018 15:53

Freddythefrog wrote:... Years ago Stade Two had a motorbike with IR camera. A glowing bottom 4” of seat tube – how the hell can anyone explain that – a hot drink stored in a secret extra water bottle location ? ...

A faulty bb. All the bikes now are sub-6.8kg and they drop tungsten ballast weights down the seat tube to make spec weight. The metal ballast weights rest on top of warm-ish bb and readily transmit heat up the seat tube.
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14 Jul 2018 18:13

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