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Sagan Clean?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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22 Sep 2016 14:47

Amnes2015 wrote:i would love to see Sagan's TUE's from fancy bears ...
when sagan needs to power up.................ya think he messes about with TUEs?

Mark L
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Re:

22 Sep 2016 14:51

Amnes2015 wrote:i would love to see Sagan's TUE's from fancy bears ...

2016 and his Hulk like look , now beating all sprinters in flat high speed sprints in Eneco, in some of them making all this huge sprint field look like amateurs (only Cav is missing from Enco Tour) ....

Why would it matter if Peter Sagan has one or twenty TUE's? He's never claimed to be Mr. Clean, nor does he ride for a hypercritical "Clean team", nor has he written a book claiming to only used needles once, nor has he had a "transformation". Sagan can have all the TUE's that he wants to, they just don't matter with him like they do with riders from the Sky team that have won 4 Tour de France titles. :rolleyes:
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Re:

22 Sep 2016 14:54

ebandit wrote:
Amnes2015 wrote:i would love to see Sagan's TUE's from fancy bears ...
when sagan needs to power up.................ya think he messes about with TUEs?

Mark L

Even if he did, does it matter? TUE's are legal, they don't matter when you're not trying to lie about being "clean as a whistle"
Darryl Webster wrote:
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22 Sep 2016 14:57

That's absurd. A TUE under a false pretense is a TUE under a false pretense.
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Re: Re:

22 Sep 2016 17:56

Irondan wrote:
Amnes2015 wrote:i would love to see Sagan's TUE's from fancy bears ...

2016 and his Hulk like look , now beating all sprinters in flat high speed sprints in Eneco, in some of them making all this huge sprint field look like amateurs (only Cav is missing from Enco Tour) ....

Why would it matter if Peter Sagan has one or twenty TUE's? He's never claimed to be Mr. Clean, nor does he ride for a hypercritical "Clean team", nor has he written a book claiming to only used needles once, nor has he had a "transformation". Sagan can have all the TUE's that he wants to, they just don't matter with him like they do with riders from the Sky team that have won 4 Tour de France titles. :rolleyes:


lol

people should be treated equally

not some to get passes for bogus reasons

back to today , casually beating grimacing Greipel while smiling

lots of steroids in this guy i guess

Image
Amnes2015
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Re: Re:

22 Sep 2016 19:11

Amnes2015 wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Amnes2015 wrote:i would love to see Sagan's TUE's from fancy bears ...

2016 and his Hulk like look , now beating all sprinters in flat high speed sprints in Eneco, in some of them making all this huge sprint field look like amateurs (only Cav is missing from Enco Tour) ....

Why would it matter if Peter Sagan has one or twenty TUE's? He's never claimed to be Mr. Clean, nor does he ride for a hypercritical "Clean team", nor has he written a book claiming to only used needles once, nor has he had a "transformation". Sagan can have all the TUE's that he wants to, they just don't matter with him like they do with riders from the Sky team that have won 4 Tour de France titles. :rolleyes:


lol

people should be treated equally

not some to get passes for bogus reasons

back to today , casually beating grimacing Greipel while smiling

lots of steroids in this guy i guess

Image

If I was judging a bodybuilding contest between these two, the "Gorilla" would win. Lol
Nomad
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22 Sep 2016 19:52

Never mind P. Sagan, concentrate About Mr. Froome and Mr. Wiggins they are the real culprits in this sport and they learned a lot about it from L. Armstrong. It is so disgusting. US Postal Team = SKY TEAM.
bikinggirl
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Re:

22 Sep 2016 20:01

bikinggirl wrote:Never mind P. Sagan, concentrate About Mr. Froome and Mr. Wiggins they are the real culprits in this sport and they learned a lot about it from L. Armstrong. It is so disgusting. US Postal Team = SKY TEAM.


This is a Sagan thread, there are plenty of Sky related ones to vent your spleen.
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22 Sep 2016 20:07

Sagan is of course an absolute (doping) monster, but it's also no surprise that he has so few posts about him here in the clinic, since he has practically everything (other than being strong as a bull) going for him: he hit the ground running, impressing everyone in Down Under as a teenager; he doesn't have any missed tests or TUEs *that we know of*; he is both versatile and has a very high level of technical skill; he isn't a climber, so we can't really compare his performances as well with dopers as we can with GT-contenders; he races attractively and is popular; we also often see him lose, so most people are not that annoyed to see him win; he isn't a native English speaker nor is he a Southern European, but comes from a small cycling nation with no bad clinic past (at least in cycling); and he doesn't fit (or perhaps because of the other reasons mentioned here, there's no focus on wether he does fit or not) the "clinic-hypocrite-criteria" like Sky or Garmin.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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23 Sep 2016 02:51

Sagan has a massive palmares at the same age Froome was holding onto motorbikes and Wigans had to beat up on the Tour de L'Avenir.

Makes sense that this thread is so short.

Although there's also this one:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22111

and this one:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17199
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23 Sep 2016 07:54

Impressive early results.
+
No elaborate mythbuilding.
=
Short thread.
sniper
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23 Sep 2016 10:24

Sagan has been on fire ever since a certain Russian questioned his morale last year. Interesting development.
Lyon
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23 Sep 2016 12:24

I have posted this in the motordope topic before.
In the stade 2 doc it sounds like the journalist is telling Cooksen that Sagan used a motor midrace in the Strade Bianchi but at the finish his bike was no longer glowing. Brian confirmed his bike was checked after the race.
starting at 11:15
https://youtu.be/15kIyBhsX8o?t=11m14s
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23 Sep 2016 12:39

Cooksons face there. Gold.
sniper
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Re:

24 Sep 2016 07:06

Lyon wrote:Sagan has been on fire ever since a certain Russian questioned his morale last year. Interesting development.


Ban psychodping!

And race radios, that's the usual transmission vector.

Maybe one should have a closer look at sunroot too. Is there TUE for that?
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Re: Re:

24 Sep 2016 18:54

noddy69 wrote:
Saint Unix wrote:Obviously one of the more naturally talented riders in the peloton, dope or not. Looks on another level this season, though. Looks like he's doing what it takes to scrape up the cobblestone races this season and I wouldn't be surprised to see him win next Sunday.

His team only adds to the suspicion.

Not possible to deduce someones natural talent vs the rest if dope is involved. Only way to do that is to have a clean sport.
Just out of interest if dope is involved how do you deduce he is a natural talent in the peleton ?
Finally with dope in the peleton how do you know anyone is naturally talented ?


Not saying he's clean, because who the hell knows, but the way he descended when he won the Worlds'--not to mention the way he bunny-hopped over Cancellara (with only one foot clipped in!) at Paris Roubaix--and about a hundred other examples show that the guy has insane natural bike-handling skills. They haven't invented a drug for that yet.
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Re: Re:

26 Sep 2016 04:01

Wallace wrote:
noddy69 wrote:
Saint Unix wrote:Obviously one of the more naturally talented riders in the peloton, dope or not. Looks on another level this season, though. Looks like he's doing what it takes to scrape up the cobblestone races this season and I wouldn't be surprised to see him win next Sunday.

His team only adds to the suspicion.

Not possible to deduce someones natural talent vs the rest if dope is involved. Only way to do that is to have a clean sport.
Just out of interest if dope is involved how do you deduce he is a natural talent in the peleton ?
Finally with dope in the peleton how do you know anyone is naturally talented ?


Not saying he's clean, because who the hell knows, but the way he descended when he won the Worlds'--not to mention the way he bunny-hopped over Cancellara (with only one foot clipped in!) at Paris Roubaix--and about a hundred other examples show that the guy has insane natural bike-handling skills. They haven't invented a drug for that yet.

My guess is natural talent + good response to the high octane stuff = :eek:

Surely you can't turn a donkey into a race horse that young. Sagan only spent one year as an U23 FFS. Unlike a certain other rider he actually did race in running shoes - and won.
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Re:

26 Sep 2016 09:44

Netserk wrote:Sagan is of course an absolute (doping) monster, but it's also no surprise that he has so few posts about him here in the clinic, since he has practically everything (other than being strong as a bull) going for him: he hit the ground running, impressing everyone in Down Under as a teenager; he doesn't have any missed tests or TUEs *that we know of*; he is both versatile and has a very high level of technical skill; he isn't a climber, so we can't really compare his performances as well with dopers as we can with GT-contenders; he races attractively and is popular; we also often see him lose, so most people are not that annoyed to see him win; he isn't a native English speaker nor is he a Southern European, but comes from a small cycling nation with no bad clinic past (at least in cycling); and he doesn't fit (or perhaps because of the other reasons mentioned here, there's no focus on wether he does fit or not) the "clinic-hypocrite-criteria" like Sky or Garmin.



I love the certainty in this! He is OF COURSE a doping monster. You obviously have an inside line on this so you must have proof, right?
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26 Sep 2016 10:26

dope+talent=winner
glassmoon
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Re:

26 Sep 2016 12:33

glassmoon wrote:dope+talent=winner

Says nothing. Dope + not much of talent = winner. Go figure.

Of course Sagan must be the most talented because he has been winning since young age - that proves he's exceptional talent, right? Yeah.
Another possible mystification people use to think. Or maybe they think exceptionally talented in doping :)

When doping is involved, there is big chance that you will never know how much talented this or that guy was.
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