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Sagan Clean?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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16 Apr 2018 00:15

I thought Pisti was never the first one to bring up Valverde. Oh my.
User avatar hrotha
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Re: Re:

18 Apr 2018 03:14

GuyIncognito wrote:
Durden93 wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
Durden93 wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:This year he was arguably the worst he's been since Tinkoff criticised him after the spring of 2015. Let's wait until he wins the Amstel on sunday, then we'll have something new to talk about.


Have we been watching the same races? Won GW and Roubaix fairly convincely. He wasn’t quite his top form in still Flanders but still looked better than most aside from Terpstra.


Agreed. Winning Roubaix from 53k out and "worst he's been" seem fairly at odds.


It’s because of Sagan’s massive talent that we underrate outstanding accomplishments. Sagan is the LeBron of cycling


The only way this hilariously misguided sentence could be forgiven is if you just started watching cycling a short time ago.

On what planet is Sagan in cycling at the level of LeBron in basketball? He's not Hinault or Merckx, mate.


There will never be another Merckx or Hinault. Those days when one guy can do it all are long gone and Sagan is the closest version that we may see these days.

There are not very many guys that can win cobbled classics, be competitive at lumpy courses similar to Amstel or even win a flat-out sprint.

Just look at those sprinters like Cav, Kittel, Greipel, cobbled specialist such Terpstra or Sep or those climbers such as Valverde, Nibali, Alaphilippe etc. None of those guys can do even two out of those three Sagan can do.

It is just a different era and it is sad that so many around here are unwilling to accept that.

So yes, Sagan is almost the cycling version of LeBron ... but again LeBron can only do one thing ...
User avatar Jancouver
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Re: Re:

18 Apr 2018 03:56

Jancouver wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:
Durden93 wrote:
Durden93 wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:This year he was arguably the worst he's been since Tinkoff criticised him after the spring of 2015. Let's wait until he wins the Amstel on sunday, then we'll have something new to talk about.


Have we been watching the same races? Won GW and Roubaix fairly convincely. He wasn’t quite his top form in still Flanders but still looked better than most aside from Terpstra.


Agreed. Winning Roubaix from 53k out and "worst he's been" seem fairly at odds.


It’s because of Sagan’s massive talent that we underrate outstanding accomplishments. Sagan is the LeBron of cycling


The only way this hilariously misguided sentence could be forgiven is if you just started watching cycling a short time ago.

On what planet is Sagan in cycling at the level of LeBron in basketball? He's not Hinault or Merckx, mate.


There will never be another Merckx or Hinault. Those days when one guy can do it all are long gone and Sagan is the closest version that we may see these days.

There are not very many guys that can win cobbled classics, be competitive at lumpy courses similar to Amstel or even win a flat-out sprint.

Just look at those sprinters like Cav, Kittel, Greipel, cobbled specialist such Terpstra or Sep or those climbers such as Valverde, Nibali, Alaphilippe etc. None of those guys can do even two out of those three Sagan can do.

It is just a different era and it is sad that so many around here are unwilling to accept that.

So yes, Sagan is almost the cycling version of LeBron ... but again LeBron can only do one thing ...[/quote]


What about Gilbert?

When Valverde was younger he did get involved in full field sprints and as Catalonia proved this year in certain circumstances he still will. Nibali has raced Flanders once, let's see what happens if he goes back.
On the other hand both Nibali and Valverde have won classics and a Grand Tour (Nibali multiple, Valverde 1 with several podiums). Sagan is never going to win a Grand Tour. Also Valverde was competitive at Dwars.
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Re: Sagan Clean?

18 Apr 2018 05:01

I wonder if Sagan were to slim down and focus his training on climbing could he win a GT? I saw him climb Mt. Baldy at the TOC a few years back where he looked phenomenal finishing 6th just 47 secs back of the winner JA. I know this is an era of cycling now where big guys can't climb anymore and the "skin & bones" or diminutive body type is the preferred build for GT contenders. That being said though, I never thought a bigger rider like Dumoulin would ever win a GT.
Last edited by Nomad on 18 Apr 2018 11:28, edited 1 time in total.
Nomad
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Re: Sagan Clean?

18 Apr 2018 10:38

Nomad wrote:I wonder if Sagan were to slim down and focus his training on climbing could he win a GT? I saw him climb Mt. Baldy at the TOC a few years back where he looked phenomenal finishing 6th just 47 secs back of the winner JA. I know this an era of cycling now where big guys can't climb anymore and the "skin & bones" or diminutive body type is the preferred build for GT contenders. That being said though, I never thought a bigger rider like Dumoulin would ever win a GT.


Yes indeedy

When he joins Team Sky

Age 32

Jeroen Swart has the "he just lost the fat" paper ready to go (auto-replace "Froome" with "Sagan")

;)
Wiggo's Package
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18 Apr 2018 11:09

Swart would actually have to come up with another stupid narrative. Sagan would have to lose a lot of muscle also. I'm sure they are working on it though
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18 Apr 2018 13:46

Sagan is a fabulous, fairly versatile rider, and when you couple his outsize personality to his accomplishments, you have a recipe for "the best."

Returning to the topic at hand -- it would be a shame if he was busted a la Froome. I don't think he's any cleaner or dirtier than the average rider in the pro peloton. But ask me again if he's still winning major races at age 37...
Bolder
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Re:

18 Apr 2018 19:27

veganrob wrote:Swart would actually have to come up with another stupid narrative. Sagan would have to lose a lot of muscle also. I'm sure they are working on it though


Good point

Is Swart smart enough to auto-replace "Froome" with "Sagan" and "just lost the fat" with "just lost the fat and muscle"?

Have my doubts

But if the consultancy fees are high enough, and with Brailsfraud having final say on what actually gets published, Jerome won't let us down
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Re:

19 Apr 2018 08:28

GuyIncognito wrote:The Sagan love over here may be over the top biased, but it's tame in comparison to other places

I bet worst situation is probably on Slovakian and then Czech forums and discussions (quite a few Slovakians are visiting Czech discussions but it doesn't happen other way round for some reason). There if you dare to say something what isn't exactly complimenting Sagan, you are done. Of course it's worst when you say something true about him what fanboys realize is true; then they are pretty mean. Mostly by Slovaks but some Czechs too. You can't say uncomplimenting truth about their idol.
Some Slovaks nicknamed him God. :D
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Re: Sagan Clean?

19 Apr 2018 08:38

Nomad wrote:I wonder if Sagan were to slim down and focus his training on climbing could he win a GT? I saw him climb Mt. Baldy at the TOC a few years back where he looked phenomenal finishing 6th just 47 secs back of the winner JA. I know this is an era of cycling now where big guys can't climb anymore and the "skin & bones" or diminutive body type is the preferred build for GT contenders. That being said though, I never thought a bigger rider like Dumoulin would ever win a GT.

I don't think so, if he could, I think he would do that already. Why? Sagan wants to be the best. To win Paris - Roubaix is nice, but to win Tour de France is much, much more.

That was pretty B-level field back there at ATOC. Alaphillippe won that mountain stage, that says it all. He wasn't climber he's now back than. Heck, Boswell was third!

This is not era where big guys can't climb aynway, see Dumoulin. He's skinny of course, as any cyclist out there, but he is not that skinny. He is no Poels.
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Re: Sagan Clean?

30 Apr 2018 17:10

Wiggo's Package wrote:
Nomad wrote:I wonder if Sagan were to slim down and focus his training on climbing could he win a GT? I saw him climb Mt. Baldy at the TOC a few years back where he looked phenomenal finishing 6th just 47 secs back of the winner JA. I know this an era of cycling now where big guys can't climb anymore and the "skin & bones" or diminutive body type is the preferred build for GT contenders. That being said though, I never thought a bigger rider like Dumoulin would ever win a GT.


Yes indeedy

When he joins Team Sky

Age 32

Jeroen Swart has the "he just lost the fat" paper ready to go (auto-replace "Froome" with "Sagan")

;)


:D well done
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Re: Re:

30 Apr 2018 17:13

Kokoso wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:The Sagan love over here may be over the top biased, but it's tame in comparison to other places

I bet worst situation is probably on Slovakian and then Czech forums and discussions (quite a few Slovakians are visiting Czech discussions but it doesn't happen other way round for some reason). There if you dare to say something what isn't exactly complimenting Sagan, you are done. Of course it's worst when you say something true about him what fanboys realize is true; then they are pretty mean. Mostly by Slovaks but some Czechs too. You can't say uncomplimenting truth about their idol.
Some Slovaks nicknamed him God. :D


Replace Sagan W/Nibali/Froome or Wonderboys names, and that's spot on.
User avatar 86TDFWinner
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01 May 2018 11:40

0% chance he's clean but we could be looking at the premier cyclist of our generation.

In the case he's busted I hope he takes his medicine and takes the 6-9 month suspension instead of dragging the case through the mud for months to years.

That and I hope he goes easy on the motors. It's comical the first couple of times but it gets old fast.
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Re: Re:

02 May 2018 08:46

86TDFWinner wrote:Replace Sagan W/Nibali/Froome or Wonderboys names, and that's spot on.


:rolleyes:
Echoes
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02 May 2018 09:58

i would say he's def in a "protected tier" so unless there's is some leak, his wins will stick. also he's generally liked and he's not being a dick to people (yet) so chances of some "inside whistler" are slimmer...
Shut up, Jens!
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05 May 2018 08:03

On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
ctaylor
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Re:

05 May 2018 17:38

ctaylor wrote:On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!


:lol: :lol: However, that does help.
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Re:

09 May 2018 10:33

ctaylor wrote:On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
that correlates well with Sagan whole light years from best climbers ability.

So no, he doesn't look any more or less human.
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Re:

09 May 2018 18:58

ctaylor wrote:On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!


Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
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Re: Sagan Clean?

13 May 2018 00:50

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