Log in:  

Register

Russian Insider Says State-Run Doping Fueled Olympic Gold

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Tonton, Pricey_sky, King Boonen

13 Dec 2016 19:30

Why only the Russians? You know that from what we have seen uncovered by leaks and confessions of the busted ----there are other countries involved in systematic doping. It is obvious. Why argue the fact.

Travis needs to get after these Russians though cause they are surely out of control.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,912
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 15:53
Location: New Orleans

Re: Re:

13 Dec 2016 23:03

thehog wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
thehog wrote:
King Boonen wrote:This is getting ridiculous. The thread is specifically about state sponsored doping in Russia and, surprise, surprise, as soon as there is a development to be discussed the off-topic posting about Sky and Britain begins.


You deal realise that one of the enablers was Craig Reddie head of WADA, do you think it was only Russians he was allowing to dope? Not his own countrymen and women?


If you want to discuss other nations doping go to a different thread. There are plenty available.


You'll have to excuse me but when Fancy Bear began leaking information you were telling everyone not to have a Fancy Bears thread, so I take what you say with the proverbial grain of salt.

Reedie and Coe enabling Russian doping is much a part of the story as the Russians actually doping. They are not separate aspect, one doesn't exist without the other.



Excuse me but you're going to have to show me where I said that.


You did not mention Reedie or Coe did you? You mentioned Brailsford and Wiggins.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 5,798
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: Russian Insider Says State-Run Doping Fueled Olympic Gol

13 Dec 2016 23:16

gooner wrote:Wishful thinking but the World Cup should be next.

Sochi has been stripped of the International Bobsleigh and Skeleton Federation (IBSF) World Championships today, with another location "to be determined" in coming days.

In a statement this evening, the IBSF Executive Committee felt that "during this difficult time it is prudent not to organise such an event in Russia".

The decision was made to "allow athletes and coaches from all nations to participate in a competition that focuses on sport rather than accusations and discussions - whether justified or not".

They added that the Russian Bobsleigh Federation has put a "great effort" in the preparation of the World Championships, but that the "current climate would make it nearly impossible to appreciate the efforts of the Organising Committee to host a great event or the quality of the Sanki Sliding Center as one of the best tracks in the world".

The decision comes after South Korea, Germany and Austria joined Latvia and athletes in Britain and United States in calling for the event to be moved from Sochi in response to evidence of state sponsored Russian doping.

Last week's McLaren Report produced damning evidence of a doping manipulation scheme in which more than 1,000 Russian athletes are thought to have been implicated at events including the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympic Games.

Latvia, home of the Olympic silver medallist and world champion Martins Dukurs, had already withdrawn from skeleton events.

American athletes and Britain's reigning Olympic skeleton champion Lizzy Yarnold were others to have called for a similar move from their countries.


http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1044780/sochi-stripped-of-international-bobsleigh-and-skeleton-federation-world-championships



You whine and moan about the Brits being bashed, but have no problem lambasting the Russians. Yes, this is Russia specific thread, but goodness me....pot meet kettle. Oh sorry, you need evidence of Brits doping, right?
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,641
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re:

13 Dec 2016 23:30

Glenn_Wilson wrote:Why only the Russians? You know that from what we have seen uncovered by leaks and confessions of the busted ----there are other countries involved in systematic doping. It is obvious. Why argue the fact.

Travis needs to get after these Russians though cause they are surely out of control.



Because this is purely political. I'll specifically add a sport I've been involved with, cross country skiing. In 2002 two top Russian women were busted at the Salt Lake City Olympics. Both of these women were two of the best in the world. One of those was one of the most successful in modern cross country, having started her career in the late 80's and was winning medals at every major event. The announcement of their positives was while the Olympics were still going on. The top woman won the 30km event, the ribbon event of the Olympic program for that sport. Now without going into too much detail on the history of doping in that sport, and the widespread use of PED's from everybody that was anybody in the sport at the time, I'll say why weren't the Russians sanctioned at the time? Because politically, the Russians had a 'decent' relationship with the US. Yes, Putin was in the early years of his first mandate, and so was Bush, but there was no real tension between the two countries.

I very much doubt the powers that be care much about 'clean sport,' and 'fair play.' It's about lining their pockets. Just like McLaren. He is a longtime professional lawyer. He knows very well how to manipulate words and make something out of nothing. He is closely tied with Richard Pound, another Canadian that was head of WADA 1999-2007. The other member of this commission is a German. Who are the biggest cheerleaders of getting the Russians sanctioned and banned from everything? Americans, Canadians and Germans.

The ultimate goal is to strip the Russians of the 2018 soccer world cup. Why do you think last years raids on FIFA happened? It wasn't to 'clean up' the sport or make sure there is no corruption, it was to get leads on how to best strip the Russians of the world cup. Also notice how the investigation(s) on prior bidding doesn't go beyond 1998. In 1994 the US hosted the world cup. Why didn't they look into that bid? We already know about the corruption surrounding the 2002 SLC bid, which they obviously won. But hey, Mittens Romney ran for president, so of course they weren't going to stop him via the 2002 Winter Olympics scandal!
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,641
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re: Russian Insider Says State-Run Doping Fueled Olympic Gol

13 Dec 2016 23:58

Which is why there was an investigation into the Copa America centenary edition in the US and indictments handed down. Hosting that was in doubt for some time.

Anyway, very interesting blog by a Russian athlete today. 95%-98% of runners dope.

https://pandaway.live/2016/12/13/doping-in-russia-or-how-i-lost-my-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-39
User avatar gooner
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,762
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 14:18

Re: Russian Insider Says State-Run Doping Fueled Olympic Gol

14 Dec 2016 00:01

BullsFan22 wrote:
gooner wrote:Wishful thinking but the World Cup should be next.

Sochi has been stripped of the International Bobsleigh and Skeleton Federation (IBSF) World Championships today, with another location "to be determined" in coming days.

In a statement this evening, the IBSF Executive Committee felt that "during this difficult time it is prudent not to organise such an event in Russia".

The decision was made to "allow athletes and coaches from all nations to participate in a competition that focuses on sport rather than accusations and discussions - whether justified or not".

They added that the Russian Bobsleigh Federation has put a "great effort" in the preparation of the World Championships, but that the "current climate would make it nearly impossible to appreciate the efforts of the Organising Committee to host a great event or the quality of the Sanki Sliding Center as one of the best tracks in the world".

The decision comes after South Korea, Germany and Austria joined Latvia and athletes in Britain and United States in calling for the event to be moved from Sochi in response to evidence of state sponsored Russian doping.

Last week's McLaren Report produced damning evidence of a doping manipulation scheme in which more than 1,000 Russian athletes are thought to have been implicated at events including the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympic Games.

Latvia, home of the Olympic silver medallist and world champion Martins Dukurs, had already withdrawn from skeleton events.

American athletes and Britain's reigning Olympic skeleton champion Lizzy Yarnold were others to have called for a similar move from their countries.


http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1044780/sochi-stripped-of-international-bobsleigh-and-skeleton-federation-world-championships



You whine and moan about the Brits being bashed, but have no problem lambasting the Russians. Yes, this is Russia specific thread, but goodness me....pot meet kettle. Oh sorry, you need evidence of Brits doping, right?


Indeed it is.

Evidence. Oh my, how dare anyone want that.
User avatar gooner
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,762
Joined: 25 Mar 2013 14:18

14 Dec 2016 15:26

glassmoon
Member
 
Posts: 946
Joined: 19 May 2012 08:56

Re:

14 Dec 2016 15:38


Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:
Darryl Webster wrote:
"Nothing seems to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it!"
User avatar Irondan
Administrator
 
Posts: 6,240
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 02:13
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:29

Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,912
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 15:53
Location: New Orleans

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:31

Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.

No hating going on here, I'm just simply calling it like I see it.
Darryl Webster wrote:
"Nothing seems to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it!"
User avatar Irondan
Administrator
 
Posts: 6,240
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 02:13
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:36

Irondan wrote:
Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.

No hating going on here, I'm just simply calling it like I see it.

Hate was a strong usage of the webster.

But I understand it is like letting the rooster into the hen house. I just don't understand why people like JV and many other are not looked upon the same. I'm not talking to you on a personal level just a generalization.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,912
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 15:53
Location: New Orleans

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:39

Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.

No hating going on here, I'm just simply calling it like I see it.

Hate was a strong usage of the webster.

But I understand it is like letting the rooster into the hen house. I just don't understand why people like JV and many other are not looked upon the same. I'm not talking to you on a personal level just a generalization.

Yeah, I got it. But, who says JV isn't looked at like a phony or ex doper? I think JV's reputation in this forum is not so good as most members see through the BS he spins...
Darryl Webster wrote:
"Nothing seems to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it!"
User avatar Irondan
Administrator
 
Posts: 6,240
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 02:13
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:43

Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.


You know that's one reform I'd love to see. If you get caught doping, okay. Serve your suspension and come back as a rider. But once you're caught, I think it would be great if there was a lifetime ban on taking any other role such as DS, coach, working for your federation, etc. I also think it would be great if there was a UCI fund that any ex pro could use for their education after retirement. It might take away some incentive from doping and add some incentives for staying clean. A neo-pro who probably isn't making much money wouldn't want to jeopardize that safety net. And after a generation passes, all the dirty folk who run the sport now will be gone.

And while I'm dreaming I want a pony. And a nice bottle of Caol Ila.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,214
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

14 Dec 2016 19:46

Yes that is true. It just seems the Russian bit these days is a bit played. Eki is not the right choice if someone wants to present a clean transparent image I will concede that. I just think he has every right to make money in this corrupt landscape as anyone else. I'm one of the jaded fans. Not like I was ever fooled but I can admit I had the hope that at least one Hero could be clean.

Peace.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,912
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 15:53
Location: New Orleans

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 19:49

ScienceIsCool wrote:
Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.


You know that's one reform I'd love to see. If you get caught doping, okay. Serve your suspension and come back as a rider. But once you're caught, I think it would be great if there was a lifetime ban on taking any other role such as DS, coach, working for your federation, etc. I also think it would be great if there was a UCI fund that any ex pro could use for their education after retirement. It might take away some incentive from doping and add some incentives for staying clean. A neo-pro who probably isn't making much money wouldn't want to jeopardize that safety net. And after a generation passes, all the dirty folk who run the sport now will be gone.

And while I'm dreaming I want a pony. And a nice bottle of Caol Ila.

John Swanson

Great ideas. I said a long time ago on a forum of the past now. Why is the Union not stronger? Why do they not determine the rules? Why do they not provide for the future of the cyclist? Maybe you would have a less greedy bastad like Lance and USPS. They were true capitalist no doubt but if there was some incentive of a future beyond the TDF victory?????

So Eki gets the job and we continue to ride the same rut in the cobbles.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,912
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 15:53
Location: New Orleans

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 20:36

Glenn_Wilson wrote:
Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:

No doubt!

But honestly why the hate towards the Eki? Because he is a Russian? There are quite a few dopers in Cycling today at many levels.

Wasn't Ekimov the one who spat on Simeoni? I'm not sure if i remember well but he seems like a complete douche if that's the case.
ColonelKidneyBeans
New Member
 
Posts: 22
Joined: 15 Sep 2016 13:18

14 Dec 2016 21:36

Ekimov was always loyal to Armstrong, yes.
kingjr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,338
Joined: 09 Sep 2012 18:53
Location: Germany

Re: Re:

14 Dec 2016 22:52

Irondan wrote:

Russia showing that it's serious about cleaning up it's image.... :rolleyes:



Well, anyone that Russia pick at this point will be scrutinized. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. I mean what were their choice? Tonkov? Berzin? Menchov? Konyshev? Tinkov......?
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,641
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

15 Dec 2016 11:04

I still think Seppelt is an antidoping legend but i do feel he is now losing the plot.
Tweeting (I paraphrase) "Russian use of TUEs is being ignored in public debate. Rather telling."

How is it even remotely relevant that Russians use TUEs?
It's a bit like Sky saying "well Lance used tramadol and retrospective TUEs too, so cut us some slack". Completely besides the point.
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,152
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

Re:

15 Dec 2016 11:38

sniper wrote:I still think Seppelt is an antidoping legend but i do feel he is now losing the plot.
Tweeting (I paraphrase) "Russian use of TUEs is being ignored in public debate. Rather telling."

How is it even remotely relevant that Russians use TUEs?
It's a bit like Sky saying "well Lance used tramadol and retrospective TUEs too, so cut us some slack". Completely besides the point.



Not sure he is a 'hero.' The guy has a political agenda. Well, not him alone, he didn't hire himself to work for ARD, but you get the picture. He is also a massive hypocrite, because when fancy bears leaked information (and will continue to do so, as far as I can see) about the use or rather the misuse of TUE's from American athletes, he and people like Travis Tygart said it was a breach of privacy and that essentially FB didn't know what TUE's are and what they are for and that application for TUE's isn't doping. Now he is complaining about Russian use of TUE's. So which is it? And what exactly are the Russians doping with? EPO? Xenon? Steroids mixed with cocktail? Meldonium? Various medications that they have TUE's for?

I wasn't sure what to really call the guy at first. Perhaps David Walsh? I think he's worse than Walsh.

It's been a while since I've visited his tweeter feed. I don't plan on visiting anytime soon. I agree about hims losing the plot, but IMO he lost it a while ago.
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,641
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Back to top