Log in:  

Register

Puerto bags to be handed over

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Tonton, Pricey_sky, King Boonen

Re: Puerto bags to be handed over

28 Dec 2016 23:05

Colom was a good climber also; way better than say Froome was ore-2011.

He was also to support Paco Mancebo of which his team were all clients of Fuentes.

More recently;

In July 2014, Colom, competing as an amateur, won the 35-39 male age group at Ironman Frankfurt qualifying himself to compete at the 2014 Ironman World Championship in Hawai'i
User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,993
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

Re: Re:

28 Dec 2016 23:10

LaFlorecita wrote:
TheSpud wrote:I think even Flo admits that AC is likely to be Bertie.

Well yes of course the abbrevation AC on Liberty Seguros training documents and race schedules refers to Berto.
AC is also on the fax Fuentes sent Saiz with the doping prescription for the 2005 TDF riders. It can be no one but Berto, there was no other AC on the Liberty TDF team. But even on that fax there was no definite proof Berto doped/was a client of Fuentes ("nada o igual a JJ"). I don't think there ever was a blood bag for him in Fuentes' fridge but we will see.


I think we all agree with what you say (because its true!). I'd be massively surprised if none of those bags matched Bertie. In my view it was swept under the carpet back in 2006.
TheSpud
Member
 
Posts: 1,210
Joined: 03 Jul 2014 20:43

Re: Puerto bags to be handed over

28 Dec 2016 23:13

thehog wrote:Colom was a good climber also; way better than say Froome was ore-2011.

He was also to support Paco Mancebo of which his team were all clients of Fuentes.

More recently;

In July 2014, Colom, competing as an amateur, won the 35-39 male age group at Ironman Frankfurt qualifying himself to compete at the 2014 Ironman World Championship in Hawai'i


I think you are just arguing with yourself now. 99%+ of people interested in cycling agree / suspect / etc. that 'AC' is Bertie (since he was a Liberty rider) and not some unknown no-name. But hey - if you want to believe its the other guy then thats up to you. I just think you're making yourself look silly.
TheSpud
Member
 
Posts: 1,210
Joined: 03 Jul 2014 20:43

Re: Re:

28 Dec 2016 23:18

Ironhead Slim wrote:
TheSpud wrote:Apologies I know your cycling knowledge only goes back as far as 2012 :lol:

The International Cycling Union (UCI) have said riders suspected of doping will be named next week.

The announcement comes just 24 hours after Spain's Anton Colom received a provisional suspension for testing positive for the banned blood booster EPO (erythropoietin).

With less than a month till the Tour de France prologue in Monte Carlo, Pat McQuaid, the UCI president, has has said he will act quickly with cycling's drug cheats.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/5496206/Suspected-dope-cheating-cyclists-will-be-named-says-UCI-president-Pat-McQuaid.html


2009? So:
3 years after Puerto ...
A small no name rider

As I said Hog - you're trolling (again).


How is he trolling? He made a statement and backed it up.[/quote]

He's trolling because he is arguing about a point that is well accepted - 'AC' is Bertie. Everyone knows it, never ever has it been said AC was Antom Colom. Why? Because 'AC' was noted in the Liberty documents - did Colom ride for them? Errr - no. Case proved and closed. Hog is not some amateur follower - he knows (or at least purports to) a lot. To come up with Colom is just baloney and therefore trolling or baiting. He should accept he is wrong and move on.
TheSpud
Member
 
Posts: 1,210
Joined: 03 Jul 2014 20:43

Re: Puerto bags to be handed over

28 Dec 2016 23:21

So will Spain be punished or 'banned' for systematic cover ups and refusal to prosecute its own athletes and letting them compete even when they (the authorities that is) knew the athletes were doping under Fuentes, De Moral, Ferrari, etc? And what about government sponsored Olympic federations?
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,641
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re: Re:

28 Dec 2016 23:27

TheSpud wrote:
Ironhead Slim wrote:
TheSpud wrote:Apologies I know your cycling knowledge only goes back as far as 2012 :lol:

The International Cycling Union (UCI) have said riders suspected of doping will be named next week.

The announcement comes just 24 hours after Spain's Anton Colom received a provisional suspension for testing positive for the banned blood booster EPO (erythropoietin).

With less than a month till the Tour de France prologue in Monte Carlo, Pat McQuaid, the UCI president, has has said he will act quickly with cycling's drug cheats.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/5496206/Suspected-dope-cheating-cyclists-will-be-named-says-UCI-president-Pat-McQuaid.html


2009? So:
3 years after Puerto ...
A small no name rider

As I said Hog - you're trolling (again).


How is he trolling? He made a statement and backed it up.


He's trolling because he is arguing about a point that is well accepted - 'AC' is Bertie. Everyone knows it, never ever has it been said AC was Antom Colom. Why? Because 'AC' was noted in the Liberty documents - did Colom ride for them? Errr - no. Case proved and closed. Hog is not some amateur follower - he knows (or at least purports to) a lot. To come up with Colom is just baloney and therefore trolling or baiting. He should accept he is wrong and move on.[/quote]


Colom was a helper, that was his job, he helped other teams outside of his own continental and pro teams. Its in his race history.

Even Contador's team manager at the time said they never gave him anything - 'Nada' is possible that Contador didn't dope via Fuentes - did Contador dope? Most likely, close to 100% but there is a more than a large possibility it was not with Fuentes.

Saiz says Contador is innocent:

Saiz commented on the current case involving one of his former riders, Alberto Contador. He tested positive for Clenbuterol during the 2010 Tour de France and while he has been cleared by the Spanish federation RFEC, he faces the possibility of an appeal by the UCI or WADA.

He said that he believed that going on his past experience with the rider, that he didn’t think he would take banned substances. “The Alberto that I knew and I taught, of course I believe in his total innocence. And I think in these things, he has not changed. I cannot put my hand in the first for anyone, but the Alberto Contador I knew [when he was on his team] has no need for these things.”

Contador was implicated in Operación Puerto, but ultimately cleared. One oft-cited reference is a mention of ‘A.C’ on a document released from the investigation in May 2006. In it, those initials were linked to a hand-written note claimed to represent doping schedules, saying ‘Nada or igual a JJ.’ It was interpreted as meaning that at that point in time, he would be given either nothing or the same as the rider Jorg Jaksche. The latter subsequently admitted doping.

Contador denied ever meeting Eufemiano Fuentes, and said he has not doped. Some have suggested that ‘A.C’ could also refer to the rider Antonio Colom.

User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,993
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

Re: Puerto bags to be handed over

28 Dec 2016 23:32

I would add:


A Spanish judge and the UCI both cleared Contador. Even the elusive Fuentes, speaking last year on Spanish radio, said he never worked with Contador.

“I was on the wrong team at the wrong time. My name was on this infamous list, but one week later, the UCI had more time to examine the documents and I was taken off. My relation with Puerto was annulled,” Contador said. “I was cleared of any link with the scandal.”



You only need to look at Colom teams to see that he was linked with Fuentes in some way:

1999–2001 Costa de Almería
2002–2003 Colchon Relax
2004–2006 Illes Balears–Banesto
2007–2008 Astana

2009 Team Katusha
User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,993
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

Re: Re:

29 Dec 2016 00:28

thehog wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well hog since he is Spanish instead of Russian his name is actually Antonio ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Colom



He called himself "Toni" and "Anton" (he rode for Katusha), both nicknames. Those with cycling knowledge pre-2012 know their cyclists. There is more than rumors that AC was Anton and not Contador but we may never know.

This is hilarious.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,018
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

29 Dec 2016 09:07

Image
User avatar jens_attacks
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,715
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 18:00

Re: Re:

29 Dec 2016 10:21

TheSpud wrote:I think we all agree with what you say (because its true!). I'd be massively surprised if none of those bags matched Bertie. In my view it was swept under the carpet back in 2006.

Yes they swept Berto's (only an up and coming cyclist at that point) bags under the carpet but not those of the bigger cycling stars. I wonder why they were so intent on helping just him and not the others.
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
User avatar LaFlorecita
Veteran
 
Posts: 27,508
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

29 Dec 2016 10:57

Ángel Castresana would also be a candidate.
He was riding for Hanegraaf in 2006.
Tienus
Member
 
Posts: 479
Joined: 30 Jan 2016 18:15

Re: Re:

29 Dec 2016 11:01

LaFlorecita wrote:
TheSpud wrote:I think we all agree with what you say (because its true!). I'd be massively surprised if none of those bags matched Bertie. In my view it was swept under the carpet back in 2006.

Yes they swept Berto's (only an up and coming cyclist at that point) bags under the carpet but not those of the bigger cycling stars. I wonder why they were so intent on helping just him and not the others.

There's suspicion about ALL the youngsters. AC, Luisle, Barredo, Navarro, Hernández, even Davis. It's quite curious that all of them were spared, even when the documents contain strong evidence against some of them (notably Davis). It's been speculated that someone wanted to at least save the new crop of Spanish talent so that they could carry the torch.
Tienus wrote:Ángel Castresana would also be a candidate.
He was riding for Hanegraaf in 2006.

It could also have been Aiman Cahyadi. He was 12 at the time.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,018
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

Re:

29 Dec 2016 11:24

Tienus wrote:Ángel Castresana would also be a candidate.
He was riding for Hanegraaf in 2006.

Indeed. And quit cycling the same year (if Wikipedia serves me right).
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,156
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

29 Dec 2016 11:31

Stop making fools of yourselves and read a little on the subject:
LaFlorecita wrote:Well yes of course the abbrevation AC on Liberty Seguros training documents and race schedules refers to Berto.
AC is also on the fax Fuentes sent Saiz with the doping prescription for the 2005 TDF riders. It can be no one but Berto, there was no other AC on the Liberty TDF team. But even on that fax there was no definite proof Berto doped/was a client of Fuentes ("nada o igual a JJ"). I don't think there ever was a blood bag for him in Fuentes' fridge but we will see.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,018
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

Re:

29 Dec 2016 11:51

I didn't mean Angel Castresana being AC.
Castresana is simply a plausible candidate to have been a Fuentes client (which is what we were speculating about on the previous page).
Read up a little on Hanegraaf.

Liberty's AC is Alberto obviously.
And to my knowledge Laflo is right that his initials weren't explicitly tied to PEDs.
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,156
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

29 Dec 2016 12:15

In fact, according to the Sueddeutsche, Alberto's name was written in full in one of the documents, and there even was a link to Alberto's personal website(???) (which only makes sense if they're talking about some kind of excel sheet here?). I'm not sure if I'm reading that right though.
AC's program was "nothing, or the same as JJ [Joerg Jaksche]".

Contadors Name steht zum einen auf dem Dokument Nummer 31: Dort ist hinter dem Kürzel A.C. (das übrigens auch Contadors Internetseite eröffnet) der Name des früheren Liberty-Fahrers zusätzlich handschriftlich vermerkt. Bei der Liste handelt es sich um einem Liberty-Medikationsplan fürs Rennjahr 2005, und neben Contadors Name steht: "Nada o igual a J.J." - nichts oder wie bei J.J. Hinter J.J. verbirgt sich, wie der Ansbacher inzwischen zugegeben hat, Jörg Jaksche.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/doping-verdacht-ac-wie-alberto-contador-1.734840
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,156
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

29 Dec 2016 12:44

I have no idea what Sueddeutsche is getting at. This is the document:
Image
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,018
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

Re:

29 Dec 2016 12:58

hrotha wrote:I have no idea what Sueddeutsche is getting at. This is the document:
Image


"Nothing, or the same as JJ"

I assume JJ was on very little then, given AC (whoever he is) was to have nothing or the same as JJ.

Maybe this is like Basso - AC didn't dope, but possibly was intending to.
TheSpud
Member
 
Posts: 1,210
Joined: 03 Jul 2014 20:43

29 Dec 2016 15:21

Wonder if some of those going to play in China are former Puerto clients..........
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,411
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re:

29 Dec 2016 16:17

hrotha wrote:I have no idea what Sueddeutsche is getting at. This is the document:
Image

Sueddeutsche did not say it "linked to" Contador's personal homepage, just that it was displayed very prominent there ("eröffnen" == to open, inaugurate and also disclose in a different meaning).
Mr.38%
Member
 
Posts: 478
Joined: 12 May 2010 09:15

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], carolina, dacooley and 21 guests

Back to top