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Puerto bags to be handed over

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Re: Re:

03 Jan 2017 01:50

MatParker117 wrote:
sniper wrote:Thijs Zonneveld on twitter is breaking that 35 Puerto bags have been identified by the Lausanne lab.
It allegedly concerns 23 cyclists and 12 t&f athletes.
So again no soccer or tennis players.

Names to be made public soon. But I'm not sure if it concerns 'new' names.

edit: Thijs expects only a handful of new names.


J A Flecha
Canc
F Schleck
any others?

I'm doubtful that Allan Davis will show up, he's been doing a lot of work in San Sebastián with developing junior and U23 riders and is starting to get results. I'd be surprised if it was all placed in jeopardy.
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Re: Re:

03 Jan 2017 15:03

TheSpud wrote:
Ironhead Slim wrote:
TheSpud wrote:Apologies I know your cycling knowledge only goes back as far as 2012 :lol:

The International Cycling Union (UCI) have said riders suspected of doping will be named next week.

The announcement comes just 24 hours after Spain's Anton Colom received a provisional suspension for testing positive for the banned blood booster EPO (erythropoietin).

With less than a month till the Tour de France prologue in Monte Carlo, Pat McQuaid, the UCI president, has has said he will act quickly with cycling's drug cheats.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/5496206/Suspected-dope-cheating-cyclists-will-be-named-says-UCI-president-Pat-McQuaid.html


2009? So:
3 years after Puerto ...
A small no name rider

As I said Hog - you're trolling (again).


How is he trolling? He made a statement and backed it up.


He's trolling because he is arguing about a point that is well accepted - 'AC' is Bertie. Everyone knows it, never ever has it been said AC was Antom Colom. Why? Because 'AC' was noted in the Liberty documents - did Colom ride for them? Errr - no. Case proved and closed. Hog is not some amateur follower - he knows (or at least purports to) a lot. To come up with Colom is just baloney and therefore trolling or baiting. He should accept he is wrong and move on.[/quote]

Actually during and right after Puerto hit proverbial fan, the name Antonio Colom was floated as being the person behind the initials AC. Nothing new there, it just seemed more likely that iOS one of Sainz's riders in which case only Contador fitted the initials. Also Colom is not a no-name rider and was always a very domestique with the ability to stick with the better climbers for a long time.
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Re: Re:

03 Jan 2017 15:27

At present though there can't be much doubt that AC is Alberto.
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cycling/contador-a-witness-in-operation-puerto-case-1459130

"nothing or same as Jaksche", hm...i doubt Ufe was talking about Funfkornbrot and Gerolsteiner.


hrotha wrote:... It's quite curious that all of them were spared, even when the documents contain strong evidence against some of them (notably Davis). It's been speculated that someone wanted to at least save the new crop of Spanish talent so that they could carry the torch.
This sounds plausible.
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Re: Re:

03 Jan 2017 16:14

sniper wrote:At present though there can't be much doubt that AC is Alberto.
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cycling/contador-a-witness-in-operation-puerto-case-1459130

"nothing or same as Jaksche", hm...i doubt Ufe was talking about Funfkornbrot and Gerolsteiner.

He was a witness (actually he wasn't one in the end) because he was on Liberty Seguros at the time and Saiz was also on trial. He was supposed to testify for/against Saiz.

How is "nothing or the same as Jaksche" proof of doping? Might as well have been nothing.
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03 Jan 2017 16:36

fair points
(apart from that i din't say antyhing about proof).

I do wonder: if Contador wasn't getting anything from Fuentes, whom was he getting from?
I doubt he was clean in that period (at least the environment in which he became a pro doesn't lend many arguments for believing he was clean).
Anybody know at what time Contador began working with Pepe Marti?
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03 Jan 2017 20:01

Having your neo pros and/or young riders go clean(ish) to accurately assess their potential is a distinct possibility. That's probably what they did in their u23 feeder team (at the time, obviously, signing anyone from a non-vetted amateur team was asking for trouble and only small pro teams did it). Did they apply the same policy to their pro team? Who knows. Maybe they did, and that document belongs to a time when Contador was considered to be in that stage between "clean(ish) young talent" and "full medical pro" (something along the lines of "He might be ready to get started on the Jaksche program [which I believe was very light except for his few targeted goals of the season], but no pressure yet")
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03 Jan 2017 23:45

So I guess nothing is gonna come from this or are we gonna have to wait 6 months for them to tell us out loud that 'stuff is happening' or something
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Re:

04 Jan 2017 00:07

Red Rick wrote:So I guess nothing is gonna come from this or are we gonna have to wait 6 months for them to tell us out loud that 'stuff is happening' or something


LOL. It reminds me of the ents in the Two Towers from LOTR. They take ages to actually begin talking about the issue, then they take more time to think about whether or not to do anything about the issue, then another few years to prepare....by the time anything gets started, Contador or Basso or Cancellara or Dekker will have become DS or race organizer at a GT.
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Re: Re:

04 Jan 2017 07:34

BullsFan22 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:So I guess nothing is gonna come from this or are we gonna have to wait 6 months for them to tell us out loud that 'stuff is happening' or something


LOL. It reminds me of the ents in the Two Towers from LOTR. They take ages to actually begin talking about the issue, then they take more time to think about whether or not to do anything about the issue, then another few years to prepare....by the time anything gets started, Contador or Basso or Cancellara or Dekker will have become DS or race organizer at a GT.


isn't THAT the point? isn't THAT the design?
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Re:

04 Jan 2017 14:45

hrotha wrote:Having your neo pros and/or young riders go clean(ish) to accurately assess their potential is a distinct possibility. That's probably what they did in their u23 feeder team (at the time, obviously, signing anyone from a non-vetted amateur team was asking for trouble and only small pro teams did it). Did they apply the same policy to their pro team? Who knows. Maybe they did, and that document belongs to a time when Contador was considered to be in that stage between "clean(ish) young talent" and "full medical pro" (something along the lines of "He might be ready to get started on the Jaksche program [which I believe was very light except for his few targeted goals of the season], but no pressure yet")

I think you are right about that and I also remember some talk about Saiz not wanting to put his young riders on a big program.
Although, that was 2005, wasn't there a BB allegedly belonging to Luisle? Who knows what they'll find for Berto :)
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Re: Re:

04 Jan 2017 19:00

LaFlorecita wrote:I think you are right about that and I also remember some talk about Saiz not wanting to put his young riders on a big program.
Although, that was 2005, wasn't there a BB allegedly belonging to Luisle? Who knows what they'll find for Berto :)

I vaguely remember reading something by, I think, Carlos Arribas, which claimed that Saiz was "devastated" when he learned that Luisle had blood bags in there or was a client of Fuentes or whatever. But Arribas is a true propagandist: he'll take a kernel of truth and spin it in the most outrageous and ridiculous sympathetic ways.
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Re: Re:

04 Jan 2017 19:46

LaFlorecita wrote:
hrotha wrote:Having your neo pros and/or young riders go clean(ish) to accurately assess their potential is a distinct possibility. That's probably what they did in their u23 feeder team (at the time, obviously, signing anyone from a non-vetted amateur team was asking for trouble and only small pro teams did it). Did they apply the same policy to their pro team? Who knows. Maybe they did, and that document belongs to a time when Contador was considered to be in that stage between "clean(ish) young talent" and "full medical pro" (something along the lines of "He might be ready to get started on the Jaksche program [which I believe was very light except for his few targeted goals of the season], but no pressure yet")

I think you are right about that and I also remember some talk about Saiz not wanting to put his young riders on a big program.
Although, that was 2005, wasn't there a BB allegedly belonging to Luisle? Who knows what they'll find for Berto :)


Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.
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04 Jan 2017 20:30

maybe he only used heating pads
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Re: Re:

04 Jan 2017 21:33

thehog wrote:Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2017 04:27

hrotha wrote:
thehog wrote:Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.


Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.
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Re: Re:

05 Jan 2017 10:31

thehog wrote:
hrotha wrote:
thehog wrote:Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.


Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.

Now you're just making **** up.
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Re: Re:

26 Jan 2017 09:06

MatParker117 wrote:
sniper wrote:Thijs Zonneveld on twitter is breaking that 35 Puerto bags have been identified by the Lausanne lab.
It allegedly concerns 23 cyclists and 12 t&f athletes.
So again no soccer or tennis players.

Names to be made public soon. But I'm not sure if it concerns 'new' names.

edit: Thijs expects only a handful of new names.


J A Flecha
Canc
F Schleck
any others?

Vayer agrees, plot thickens.

https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/824529906801541123
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/824343813892296712
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Re: Re:

26 Jan 2017 09:18

hrotha wrote:
thehog wrote:
hrotha wrote:
thehog wrote:Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.


Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.

Now you're just making **** up.

This seems to be creeping into the clinic more and more. Accuse someone of something with nothing to back it up. Pretty sure that's against the rules here.
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26 Jan 2017 10:35

So how likely do we find it that Contador didn't use bags before 2007? Would micro-dosing EPO (+T or HGH or whatever) be enough for 1 week races, if he started them on a high level? Do we even know how much (or an example of) bags were used outside of GTs before Puerto?
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Re:

27 Jan 2017 01:53

Netserk wrote:So how likely do we find it that Contador didn't use bags before 2007? Would micro-dosing EPO (+T or HGH or whatever) be enough for 1 week races, if he started them on a high level? Do we even know how much (or an example of) bags were used outside of GTs before Puerto?

Hamilton said that he used a Blood Bag right before his Liege win in 2003. If you look through the lists of monument winners I doubt that he was the only one.
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