Log in:  

Register

In Blood Stepped: The History Of Blood Doping In Sport

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 18:43

Aragon wrote:Here is the English translation of the Mikko Ala-Leppilampi blood doping essay I promised, if anyone is interested.
Appreciate you sharing all of this - thanks.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,775
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re:

10 Sep 2017 18:55

fmk_RoI wrote:Peter Janssen's story, in summary.

- reads an article about Conconi and Moser ("I thought hello, if I was a cyclist myself, I'd like to try it sometime, that's at least something. Instead of all this nonsense. '")
- in November (1987?) he's watching the ten o'clock news and sees a story about a blood bank in Velp ("I called them right away the next day, that was the beginning.")
- he practices on himself first and then introduces the procedure to PDM
- in 1988 it was one bag in Nantes (end of stage two or start of stage three?) and two bags in Strasbourg (end of stage nine). He only names Rooks and Theunisse (Bertus Fok's diary also showed Jörg Müller received one bag of blood in Strasbourg)
- the blood bank in Velp was charging 1,500 Guilders per blood bag (that's GBP 400 or USD 750)
- PDM again used blood bags in 1989, one bag on the Thursday before the start in Luxembourg, two bags in Bordeaux (at the end of stage seven)
- Janssen left PDM in 1990 and joined Panasonic where blood bags were also used
- when the blood bank in Velp went bust Janssen was able to make arrangement with a German supplier
- he left Panasonic pretty quickly
- in 1993 former Panasonic rider Eddy Bouwmans (Novemail - Histor) approached him directly and two bags of blood were taken out and stored in the German facility

What's new? We now have Panasonic using blood transfusions in 1990. We have one rider from Novemail - Histor turning to transfusions as late as 1993. We have an actual cost for the procedure. We have a picture of one of the ways knowledge of the procedure was spreading indirectly.

Have I missed anything important?


Why no blood bags after the first week? It's when they'd be most effective
User avatar GuyIncognito
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,465
Joined: 27 Jun 2013 21:19

Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 19:06

GuyIncognito wrote:Why no blood bags after the first week? It's when they'd be most effective
Good question. His dates don't really fit with current understanding of rest-day oil changes. If we discount knowledge - while he is somewhat self-thought on the application of transfusions to sport, he's clearly intelligent and this isn't quite the amateur hour at teh five-and-dime the LA 84 thing was - maybe there is a logistical issue in terms of getting enough bags out and storing them for long enough? I don't know. Any ideas, Aragon?
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,775
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 21:03

fmk_RoI wrote:
GuyIncognito wrote:Why no blood bags after the first week? It's when they'd be most effective
Good question. His dates don't really fit with current understanding of rest-day oil changes. If we discount knowledge - while he is somewhat self-thought on the application of transfusions to sport, he's clearly intelligent and this isn't quite the amateur hour at teh five-and-dime the LA 84 thing was - maybe there is a logistical issue in terms of getting enough bags out and storing them for long enough? I don't know. Any ideas, Aragon?


I would've thought rest days were more than a blood bag, but a whole cocktail of recovery and performance enhancements. Might all be contained in a BB of course.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,986
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 02:09

GuyIncognito wrote:
Why no blood bags after the first week? It's when they'd be most effective


If this was frozen autologous blood, there's a limit on how much a rider can produce. You would expect the withdrawals to take place in the off season, spaced several weeks apart at least, and if the riders were training at that time, this would interfere with the training.

Several other relevant factors: 1) While I just said they probably withdrew blood during the offseason, maybe they did it during the season. This would leave them in a weakened condition, and since not much was known at this time about how long it would take for full recovery, they might want to transfuse before a race to make certain they were strong going into it. 2) At this time, not much was known about how long the effects of transfusion, or any other means of blood doping, lasted. They might have thought that a bag before the start of a stage race would last throughout the race. A second transfusion would be regarded as a booster, rather than as necessary because the effects of the first had disappeared. 3) If they had never done this before, and didn't know what to expect, they might want to transfuse early, to give themselves time to get used to it on stages that weren't critical. I take it there's no indication they practiced this before the season began, out of competition, probably at least partly because of the limited amount of blood available.

Also worth noting that while Janssen may have become aware of freezing blood (more precisely, separating RBC from plasma, and freezing them) in the late 1980s, the technique had been developed nearly forty years earlier. I can't remember now if Sniper in his, shall we say, speculations about Lemond, suggested that he may have taken advantage of the technique back in the late 70s.
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,109
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 05:05

Merckx index wrote:2) At this time, not much was known about how long the effects of transfusion, or any other means of blood doping, lasted.

On the un-orthodox timings of blood infusions, my wild guess would be this even when there could have been some logistical limitations involved. The RBCs are frozen in glycerol solution and they must be thawed and washed before reinfusion, so one would assume that it takes some know-how and equipment where and when it can be done.

It really wasn't that well-known how long the effect lasted, and as the 1984 Los Angeles blood dopers, had Janssen read the literature on the subject, he had encountered the breakthrough study published in 1980 (Buick, Spriet, Gledhill et all) in which after the reinfusion of two blood bags (900 ml), hemoglobin concentration was elevated some 10 % and returned linearly from polycythemia to normal levels in 15 weeks.
User avatar Aragon
Junior Member
 
Posts: 160
Joined: 29 Aug 2016 17:44
Location: Finland

Re:

11 Sep 2017 08:16

I've looked it up, and the commercial blood bank in Velp went bust in July '88. They had fewer than 40 customers. I can't find any other references to a blood bank in Velp around that time, so I assume that must've been the one.

Here's an article announcing the opening of the blood bank in October '87 with some more info (dutch). They ran incredibly subtle ads.
El_ojo_del_Tigre
New Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 15 Mar 2013 10:08

Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 15:29

El_ojo_del_Tigre wrote:I've looked it up, and the commercial blood bank in Velp went bust in July '88. They had fewer than 40 customers. I can't find any other references to a blood bank in Velp around that time, so I assume that must've been the one.

Here's an article announcing the opening of the blood bank in October '87 with some more info (dutch). They ran incredibly subtle ads.
Appreciate you digging those stories out.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,775
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re: Re:

12 Sep 2017 17:23

While there isn't anything strikingly sensational in the recollections of Janssen, if one wants to put this episode in historical context, this could be the first time when a doctor has confessed voluntarily having been involved in blood doping activities, and I mean praxis and not scientific research and even during a time when it was specifically banned.

Yes, there are some doctors such as Eufemiano Fuentes in 2000s and Francesco Conconi, Herman Falsetti and a handful of Finns describing their practices two decades earlier, but they should be read more as damage control when the programs were already revealed rather than "real" confessions (e.g. Alberto Cova confessed transfusions already in 1982). The only even somewhat similar instance I can recall was when one Finnish team doctor in 1985 admitted in passing having administered transfusions to four athletes "all who can be proven to have been very anemic", both the confession and operations taking place when the method was not banned.

It is another question whether Janssen would've been so open without the revelations from the PDM-diaries, but the fallout more or less was already a few years ago. I don't know what is the moral code among the team doctors of 1980s, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if there would be more confessions now that everyone knows that he is not the only one being implicated.

That having been written, when the first confessions about the Finnish blood doping program came into light in 1982, there was similar hope among journalists that everyone could now confess everything and "the truth" about the "secret program" would finally be revealed in public. That was 35 years ago and even today we know next-to-nothing about "secret program", there has essentially been no new material at all.
User avatar Aragon
Junior Member
 
Posts: 160
Joined: 29 Aug 2016 17:44
Location: Finland

Previous

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Libertine Seguros and 26 guests

Back to top