Log in:  

Register

CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Re:

25 Oct 2017 10:57

Electress wrote:
samhocking wrote:Josh purchased his own equipment. There was no doctor patient relationship. Josh was the doctor and the patient so no GMC rules broken by talking.

British Cycling invoice Sky for Freeman's services to Sky and Freeman will be self-employed invoicing British Cycling so Freeman is not PAYE employee as such. He will be employed like Cope was. i.e. self employed and keep his expenses separated between BC & Sky so BC accountant knows who pays what expense on the invoice he sends Tour Racing Ltd.


There was a doctor patient relationship. The reason that they determined not to report the incident was that he was deemed to be 'ill' - indeed, Dr Peter's quote was "I suppose if I'm looking at safety issues I did think there was a really big risk this lad would be pushed over the edge. I stand by my decision...He is making very poor decisions because he is not well, and therefore we need to treat him first of all and then get to the bottom of it. But actually to put him through some kind of investigation or disciplinary at that point could've been very serious and damaged this lad's health."

They claim they decided not to report for fear of his mental health. Then they discussed his mental health to defend their position. Now, presumably he'd already published his own story by then, but I would be curious to hear from a doctor whether or not this means you are permitted to discuss the patient, or whether you still need to clear it with the patient before doing so.

Re. Freeman's position - do you know that he contracted to Sky via BC using, presumably, back to back contracts or just presuming? If he were a freelancer, he'd be perfectly able to invoice directly - cheaper for Sky, less administrative complications re. expsenses etc., liabilities much much clearer in the event of failure to perform, lower risk falling foul of tax man.


I believe he can discuss the details of what happened at the hotel because Josh had already discussed it with the media and Steve Peters is allowed a right of response but can only discuss what happened at the hotel and his decision making process. Any sessions between Josh and himself remain confidential and will do so without Josh's written consent or a Judge's order.
MatParker117
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,766
Joined: 28 Aug 2012 22:05

25 Oct 2017 11:56

Slightly off topic, but on a related note: It's a pity that not a single journalist ever went and corroborated the veracity of Froome's 2007 Fax. There would have been zero doctor patient confidentiality issues, indeed because Froome had already shared the data with the media. Would've been an easy one to head home, yet zero interest from the media. Go figure.
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,578
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

Re:

25 Oct 2017 14:59

sniper wrote:Slightly off topic, but on a related note: It's a pity that not a single journalist ever went and corroborated the veracity of Froome's 2007 Fax. There would have been zero doctor patient confidentiality issues, indeed because Froome had already shared the data with the media. Would've been an easy one to head home, yet zero interest from the media. Go figure.


Because not every snippet of information is deemed newsworthy. Lots of insignificant information is passed down many years later through interviews or the like.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,169
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re: Re:

08 Nov 2017 13:54

King Boonen wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Well, it's only a week until the month end. When the much delayed DCMS report was supposed to be landing. Now it'll be landing "within the coming weeks." Damian Collins - the brightest light in the DCMS's star chamber - has spoken to CN and says the report will be "critical over areas of concern that we’ve identified between British Cycling and Team Sky".


Just hope they're not giving those criticized a chance to complain before publication. I expect Sky's lawyers are already writing up SDB's response.


You don't believe people should have a right of reply? That seems like a strange position, why do you think that?


Right to reply, yes. Right to water down, nuance, dilute before publication, no. (see e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/15/damian-collins-calls-dethroning-uci-president-brian-cookson-british-cycling-report )
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
"The president is one large S.T.D., and if you’re in close proximity you’re going to get tainted by it.”
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,139
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re: Re:

08 Nov 2017 14:02

Robert5091 wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Well, it's only a week until the month end. When the much delayed DCMS report was supposed to be landing. Now it'll be landing "within the coming weeks." Damian Collins - the brightest light in the DCMS's star chamber - has spoken to CN and says the report will be "critical over areas of concern that we’ve identified between British Cycling and Team Sky".


Just hope they're not giving those criticized a chance to complain before publication. I expect Sky's lawyers are already writing up SDB's response.


You don't believe people should have a right of reply? That seems like a strange position, why do you think that?


Right to reply, yes. Right to water down, nuance, dilute before publication, no. (see e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/15/damian-collins-calls-dethroning-uci-president-brian-cookson-british-cycling-report )


That was a report on British Cycling commissioned by British Cycling and finalised and released by British Cycling. It's hardly surprising they dropped the most damning conclusions when they were in control of it. They have no control over the DCMS report as far as I can see.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,469
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

08 Nov 2017 14:06

British Cycling said allegations of watering down the report were a matter for the authors of the independent review to comment upon. In a statement, it defended itself saying: “Change is very much in train at British Cycling. Damian Collins would be very welcome to come to the National Cycling Centre, whenever he would like, to witness the transformation that is under way.”


Ah what a culture of openness and transparency conveyed in a "you cant touch us Mr MP" kind of way.
That statement has former Labour spin doctor written all over it.
B_Ugli
Member
 
Posts: 417
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 13:41

08 Nov 2017 16:48

'The British Cycling chairman, Jonathan Browning, is to step down after only nine months in the role, conceding the organisation needs a new leadership team.

The 57-year-old, who replaced Bob Howden in February, insisted that he had steered British Cycling out of the “depths of a crisis” following allegations of bullying, sexism and abuse of Para-athletes last year - as well as the continuing fallout from the mysterious jiffy bag that was delivered by an employee to Bradley Wiggins in 2011.'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/08/british-cycling-chairman-jonathan-browning-steps-down-after-nine-months-in-the-saddle
Mayo from Mayo
Junior Member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: 30 Jun 2014 08:16

Re: Re:

08 Nov 2017 17:36

Robert5091 wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Well, it's only a week until the month end. When the much delayed DCMS report was supposed to be landing. Now it'll be landing "within the coming weeks." Damian Collins - the brightest light in the DCMS's star chamber - has spoken to CN and says the report will be "critical over areas of concern that we’ve identified between British Cycling and Team Sky".


Just hope they're not giving those criticized a chance to complain before publication. I expect Sky's lawyers are already writing up SDB's response.


You don't believe people should have a right of reply? That seems like a strange position, why do you think that?


Right to reply, yes. Right to water down, nuance, dilute before publication, no. (see e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/15/damian-collins-calls-dethroning-uci-president-brian-cookson-british-cycling-report )


I fail to see the relevance of linking an article from Jun 2017 - Yes the Chair of British Cycling has stood down today but that's not the link.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,169
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re: Re:

08 Nov 2017 17:53

yaco wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Well, it's only a week until the month end. When the much delayed DCMS report was supposed to be landing. Now it'll be landing "within the coming weeks." Damian Collins - the brightest light in the DCMS's star chamber - has spoken to CN and says the report will be "critical over areas of concern that we’ve identified between British Cycling and Team Sky".


Just hope they're not giving those criticized a chance to complain before publication. I expect Sky's lawyers are already writing up SDB's response.


You don't believe people should have a right of reply? That seems like a strange position, why do you think that?


Right to reply, yes. Right to water down, nuance, dilute before publication, no. (see e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/15/damian-collins-calls-dethroning-uci-president-brian-cookson-british-cycling-report )


I fail to see the relevance of linking an article from Jun 2017 - Yes the Chair of British Cycling has stood down today but that's not the link.


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/08/british-cycling-chairman-jonathan-browning-steps-down-after-nine-months-in-the-saddle

Must have been some ugly baby.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

10 Nov 2017 10:06

Time to lawyer up!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41939678
Former Great Britain Olympian Jess Varnish is suing UK Sport and British Cycling.

A source close to Varnish has told BBC Sport her legal action is based on claims the 26-year-old suffered sex discrimination, detriment for whistleblowing, victimisation and unfair dismissal.

The sprinter was dropped from British Cycling's elite programme last year, after which former technical director Shane Sutton was found to have used sexist language towards her.

Sutton resigned but was later cleared of eight of nine allegations.

BBC Sport revealed in March that Varnish was considering taking legal action against British Cycling, but she has since decided to expand her claims to include UK Sport.
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
"The president is one large S.T.D., and if you’re in close proximity you’re going to get tainted by it.”
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,139
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re:

10 Nov 2017 10:07

Robert5091 wrote:Time to lawyer up!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/41939678
Former Great Britain Olympian Jess Varnish is suing UK Sport and British Cycling.

A source close to Varnish has told BBC Sport her legal action is based on claims the 26-year-old suffered sex discrimination, detriment for whistleblowing, victimisation and unfair dismissal.

The sprinter was dropped from British Cycling's elite programme last year, after which former technical director Shane Sutton was found to have used sexist language towards her.

Sutton resigned but was later cleared of eight of nine allegations.

BBC Sport revealed in March that Varnish was considering taking legal action against British Cycling, but she has since decided to expand her claims to include UK Sport.


Good. I hope she wins big.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,469
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

10 Nov 2017 19:04

Under Secretary of State for Sport and Civil Society will be up in front of the Committee on Tuesday morning - could be entertaining
Witness

Tuesday 14 November 2017, Committee Room 18, Palace of Westminster
At 10.30am
Tracey Crouch MP, Under Secretary of State for Sport and Civil Society

Purpose of the session

As part of their inquiry into Sports Governance, the Digital, Culture Media and Sport Committee will question Tracey Crouch MP, Minister for Sport and Civil Society, on her response to the issues raised in evidence sessions with British Cycling, the FA and figures from the world of Paralympics.

MPs will use the session to highlight the general lack of grievance procedures and whistleblowing mechanisms for both athletes and staff across various sports.

Since allegations of bullying and harassment in sport have come to the fore throughout the inquiry, the Committee will also use the opportunity to explore whether the Government’s new Code for Sports Governance is doing enough to actively prevent such cases and protect athletes and staff.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,979
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

16 Nov 2017 13:31

I wonder how the final DCMS report, should it ever break free from constantly being pushed back and back and back, will address these points raised during Nicole Saptsead's appearance in March:
Q1623
Chair: The records of Team Sky buying Fluimucil, have you had any records of it ever buying Fluimucil via British Cycling in Manchester?
Nicole Sapstead: No.
Chair: No evidence at all that that was one of its sources?
Nicole Sapstead: No. My understanding of how this was ordered is there seems to be no record of it being ordered in the UK, which can only lead me to believe that Fluimucil only ever came from pharmacies abroad. I cannot prove or disprove that.
Q1625
Chair: We asked British Cycling if it would give us records relating to the quantities of drugs that are routinely stored in Manchester. It has not done that, but have you seen any evidence to suggest that Fluimucil is ordered by British Cycling and kept in its stores?
Nicole Sapstead: I have not, no.
Q1626
Chair: The information British Cycling has given you, as part of its investigation, is there is nothing to suggest that Fluimucil is a drug that it—
Nicole Sapstead: I have only seen invoices or records that relate to products that do not include Fluimucil.
Q1627
Chair: The records suggest a lot of triamcinolone is being ordered and used but no records about Fluimucil?
Nicole Sapstead: No.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,979
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re:

16 Nov 2017 19:05

fmk_RoI wrote:I wonder how the final DCMS report, should it ever break free from constantly being pushed back and back and back, will address these points raised during Nicole Saptsead's appearance in March:
Q1623
Chair: The records of Team Sky buying Fluimucil, have you had any records of it ever buying Fluimucil via British Cycling in Manchester?
Nicole Sapstead: No.
Chair: No evidence at all that that was one of its sources?
Nicole Sapstead: No. My understanding of how this was ordered is there seems to be no record of it being ordered in the UK, which can only lead me to believe that Fluimucil only ever came from pharmacies abroad. I cannot prove or disprove that.
Q1625
Chair: We asked British Cycling if it would give us records relating to the quantities of drugs that are routinely stored in Manchester. It has not done that, but have you seen any evidence to suggest that Fluimucil is ordered by British Cycling and kept in its stores?
Nicole Sapstead: I have not, no.
Q1626
Chair: The information British Cycling has given you, as part of its investigation, is there is nothing to suggest that Fluimucil is a drug that it—
Nicole Sapstead: I have only seen invoices or records that relate to products that do not include Fluimucil.
Q1627
Chair: The records suggest a lot of triamcinolone is being ordered and used but no records about Fluimucil?
Nicole Sapstead: No.


I imagine that there is lots of pressure being put on to exonerate all these Olympic medal winners and their coaches whom a lot have recieved honours from the Queen. Wont look good if that have to hand olympic medals back now would it!

It also makes a mockery of claims that the Russians are the dirty cheating dopers if Wiggins and co were just as dirty with tax payers pounds.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Previous

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EdgarWinner, veganrob and 10 guests

Back to top