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CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

02 Mar 2017 01:22

del1962 wrote:
gooner wrote:Allardyce took some of the main Bolton medical staff with him. I think Freddy Shepherd was a small bit worried about the cost of it all as it was a huge staff he wanted at Newcastle.


Freddie Shepherd appointed BFS and them Ashely took over,

Can we stop this Big Sam nonsense, it is Big Fat Sam, I think we could forgive his lack of results at Newcastle had the football been less dire

ANyway why Freeman warrents a thread on him in the clinic is beyond me, it is not like there is any evidence against him, and he could be discussed in the Sky Thread if necessary.


Freeman deserves his thread, Freeman interviewed Leinders after all. A match made in heaven.
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Re: Dr. Freeman, what do we know about him?

02 Mar 2017 10:23

Crazy how, as time goes by, a lot of snipers early theories and assumptions turn out to be quite close to the truth
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Re: Dr. Freeman, what do we know about him?

02 Mar 2017 10:54

The Hitch wrote:Crazy how, as time goes by, a lot of snipers early theories and assumptions turn out to be quite close to the truth


I'm not sure pointing to a doctor on a pro cycling team and suggesting they might be doing something dodgy is then being proved right is particularly surprising, but Sniper does deserve credit for the perseverance he shows when many people dismiss some of his theories out of hand.
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:04

If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:25

King Boonen wrote:If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.

So potentially over several years, Team Sky's foreign riders were benefitting from British Cycling's (Tax payers) medicine cabinet
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:37

Papparrazzi wrote:
King Boonen wrote:If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.

So potentially over several years, Team Sky's foreign riders were benefitting from British Cycling's (Tax payers) medicine cabinet



The tax payer funded aspect is something that missed in all of this, along that it was a private organisation which was using those funds to benefit itself.
User avatar thehog
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:40

King Boonen wrote:If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.

No, this is fine.

Cheers
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:42

thehog wrote:
Papparrazzi wrote:
King Boonen wrote:If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.

So potentially over several years, Team Sky's foreign riders were benefitting from British Cycling's (Tax payers) medicine cabinet



The tax payer funded aspect is something that missed in all of this, along that it was a private organisation which was using those funds to benefit itself.

Sounding a lot like USPS...

Papparazzi, it's a very good point. It seems from the evidence I manges to catch that no-one has any idea who is dipping into the medicines store and where the medicines are going so I would guess it's very possible.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 14:50

King Boonen wrote:
thehog wrote:
Papparrazzi wrote:
King Boonen wrote:If the mods don't like this feel free to delete/move but the discussion of this is very interesting and currently all over the place.

Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Excessive amounts of triamcinolone ordered for one ride. Would suggest multiple riders using.
No record of Fluimucil ever being purchased.
Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.
All medical records maintained by Dr. Freeman lost when laptop stolen on holiday and it seems they were never backed up.

It really doesn't look good.

So potentially over several years, Team Sky's foreign riders were benefitting from British Cycling's (Tax payers) medicine cabinet



The tax payer funded aspect is something that missed in all of this, along that it was a private organisation which was using those funds to benefit itself.

Sounding a lot like USPS...

Papparazzi, it's a very good point. It seems from the evidence I manges to catch that no-one has any idea who is dipping into the medicines store and where the medicines are going so I would guess it's very possible.


That it is, with the added twist that the current UCI President presided over the entire sham.
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 15:13

Irondan wrote:No, this is fine.

Cheers

Thanks Irondan, it was getting really hard to follow the thread of discussion and not repeat/miss things.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

02 Mar 2017 15:20

Papparrazzi wrote:
King Boonen wrote:Couple of highlights from Sapsteads testimony:

Massively blurred lines between BC and Sky, drugs passed between organisations with no documentation.

It really doesn't look good.

So potentially over several years, Team Sky's foreign riders were benefitting from British Cycling's (Tax payers) medicine cabinet


The last 7 years in the UK have been a time of austerity, attempts at greater cost control in use of taxpayer funds etc. Bearing that in mind, it'd be interesting to find out if the taxpayer funded medicines provided to BC were used to the benefit of non-British riders.

Might the DCMS select committee invite, say, the National Audit Office quango to investigate this?
Cake
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02 Mar 2017 15:28

I didn't see the previous occasion(s) UKAD had appeared in front of the committee. Yesterday Sapstead was given a very easy time - in fact at one point she was making a pitch for more funding. I thought Damien Collins was angling to ask about the Lizzie Deignan case after Sapstead had dutifully trotted out the three missed tests rule but alas not. But he would surely be in his rights to ask what we would be getting for our money if UKAD funding was increased. In the Lizzie Deignan case either the testing procedures were not robust or UKAD is giving special treatment to a star athlete. We will probably never find out but n either case would more funding help or is it case of throwing good money after bad ?

Likewise we have Nicole Cooke's concerns, Dan Stevens' evidence apparently ignored and in this case (which only came about because of the BC source for the Mail) we have over 1000 hours of work already and probably no sanction coming
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02 Mar 2017 15:51

Dr Freeman will be protected by his professional association - Medical association's have plenty of power.
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Re:

02 Mar 2017 16:04

Eyeballs Out wrote:I didn't see the previous occasion(s) UKAD had appeared in front of the committee. Yesterday Sapstead was given a very easy time - in fact at one point she was making a pitch for more funding. I thought Damien Collins was angling to ask about the Lizzie Deignan case after Sapstead had dutifully trotted out the three missed tests rule but alas not. But he would surely be in his rights to ask what we would be getting for our money if UKAD funding was increased. In the Lizzie Deignan case either the testing procedures were not robust or UKAD is giving special treatment to a star athlete. We will probably never find out but n either case would more funding help or is it case of throwing good money after bad ?

Likewise we have Nicole Cooke's concerns, Dan Stevens' evidence apparently ignored and in this case (which only came about because of the BC source for the Mail) we have over 1000 hours of work already and probably no sanction coming


It's the standard line parrotted by NADO's in their sleep - ' We need more funding' - Departmental heads are usually grilled by Senate Committees 3 or 4 times a year - Nothing unusual in Sapstead's appearance.
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Re:

02 Mar 2017 16:19

Eyeballs Out wrote:I didn't see the previous occasion(s) UKAD had appeared in front of the committee. Yesterday Sapstead was given a very easy time - in fact at one point she was making a pitch for more funding. I thought Damien Collins was angling to ask about the Lizzie Deignan case after Sapstead had dutifully trotted out the three missed tests rule but alas not. But he would surely be in his rights to ask what we would be getting for our money if UKAD funding was increased. In the Lizzie Deignan case either the testing procedures were not robust or UKAD is giving special treatment to a star athlete. We will probably never find out but n either case would more funding help or is it case of throwing good money after bad ?

Likewise we have Nicole Cooke's concerns, Dan Stevens' evidence apparently ignored and in this case (which only came about because of the BC source for the Mail) we have over 1000 hours of work already and probably no sanction coming


I have to say Slappersted <edited by mods>. She simply didn't want to uncover what she knew was under the carpet. She's been asleep at the wheel telling the world that UKAD are at the forefront of anti-doping when truth be told, to be successful is to do nothing.

JTL must be having a good laugh into his beee right about now.
Last edited by Irondan on 03 Mar 2017 13:38, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: crude, sexist remark
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Re: Re:

02 Mar 2017 16:23

Eyeballs Out wrote:I didn't see the previous occasion(s) UKAD had appeared in front of the committee. Yesterday Sapstead was given a very easy time - in fact at one point she was making a pitch for more funding. I thought Damien Collins was angling to ask about the Lizzie Deignan case after Sapstead had dutifully trotted out the three missed tests rule but alas not. But he would surely be in his rights to ask what we would be getting for our money if UKAD funding was increased. In the Lizzie Deignan case either the testing procedures were not robust or UKAD is giving special treatment to a star athlete. We will probably never find out but n either case would more funding help or is it case of throwing good money after bad ?

Likewise we have Nicole Cooke's concerns, Dan Stevens' evidence apparently ignored and in this case (which only came about because of the BC source for the Mail) we have over 1000 hours of work already and probably no sanction coming
+1

thehog wrote:I have to say Slappersted <edited by mods>. She simply didn't want to uncover what she knew was under the carpet. She's been asleep at the wheel telling the world that UKAD are at the forefront of anti-doping when truth be told, to be successful is to do nothing.

JTL must be having a good laugh into his beee right about now.
+2

This is a 6 months investigation but it still appears like they have only completed the first two weeks of it.
Anyone praising Sapstead for her performance yesterday is not seeing the timeline and asking the question: since when did she knew things were not above board?

Sapstead and UKAD were going to wrap this up in concert with BC before the christmas break, but then Nicole Cooke ripped into Brailsford & BC/Sky in that Guardian article. Only then did Sapstead get the invite from Damian Collins and suddenly Sapstead was fighting for her job. It was either her job or put BC/Sky in the spotlight, and she wisely went with the latter.
And so being under pressure she had to send out the team in order to be seen to be doing something. That generated the late night session in Manchester ending with Freeman throwing his computer in the dumpster somewhere.
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Re:

02 Mar 2017 17:14

yaco wrote:Dr Freeman will be protected by his professional association - Medical association's have plenty of power.


You would think they would use their power to recommend regular backup of computer files. ;)


edit: grammar
edit:spelling
Last edited by Ironhead Slim on 02 Mar 2017 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dr. Freeman, what do we know about him?

02 Mar 2017 17:52

King Boonen wrote:
The Hitch wrote:Crazy how, as time goes by, a lot of snipers early theories and assumptions turn out to be quite close to the truth


I'm not sure pointing to a doctor on a pro cycling team and suggesting they might be doing something dodgy is then being proved right is particularly surprising, but Sniper does deserve credit for the perseverance he shows when many people dismiss some of his theories out of hand.

cheers guys, appreciate it.
Fair point KB, admittedly Freeman being dodgy wasn't hard to foresee.
But bottomline is of course: you should listen to sniper more often rather than argue with him :D ;)

I like how Freeman's case turns out to be an appraisal for real cycling docs like Leinders.
Clearly Freeman and Kerrison together couldn't do the magic for Sky.
That said, when Leinders was gone, Sky kept getting results.
Had Freeman been a good student? Or is Kerrison the elephant in the room.
Alan Farrell and Phil Burt are also there being shady in the background.
Last edited by sniper on 03 Mar 2017 13:02, edited 1 time in total.
sniper
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02 Mar 2017 19:52

That initial interview in the first post read like Skyparody: frost chambers, liquid nitrogen, hot and cold bathing.
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Re: Re:

02 Mar 2017 20:35

sniper wrote:
Eyeballs Out wrote:I didn't see the previous occasion(s) UKAD had appeared in front of the committee. Yesterday Sapstead was given a very easy time - in fact at one point she was making a pitch for more funding. I thought Damien Collins was angling to ask about the Lizzie Deignan case after Sapstead had dutifully trotted out the three missed tests rule but alas not. But he would surely be in his rights to ask what we would be getting for our money if UKAD funding was increased. In the Lizzie Deignan case either the testing procedures were not robust or UKAD is giving special treatment to a star athlete. We will probably never find out but n either case would more funding help or is it case of throwing good money after bad ?

Likewise we have Nicole Cooke's concerns, Dan Stevens' evidence apparently ignored and in this case (which only came about because of the BC source for the Mail) we have over 1000 hours of work already and probably no sanction coming
+1

thehog wrote:I have to say Slappersted <edited by mods>. She simply didn't want to uncover what she knew was under the carpet. She's been asleep at the wheel telling the world that UKAD are at the forefront of anti-doping when truth be told, to be successful is to do nothing.

JTL must be having a good laugh into his beee right about now.
+2

This is a 6 months investigation but it still appears like they have only completed the first two weeks of it.
Anyone praising Sapstead for her performance yesterday is not seeing the timeline and asking the question: since when did she knew things were not above board?

Sapstead and UKAD were going to wrap this up in concert with BC before the christmas break, but then Nicole Cooke ripped into Brailsford & BC/Sky in that Guardian article. Only then did Sapstead get the invite from Damian Collins and suddenly Sapstead was fighting for her job. It was either her job or put BC/Sky in the spotlight, and she wisely went with the latter.
And so being under pressure she had to send out the team in order to be seen to be doing something. That generated the late night session in Manchester ending with Freeman throwing his computer in the dumpster somewhere.



Question now, what next? Will they bring proceeding against Wiggins? I don't think UKAD have the balls, they are too scared of Sir Dave.
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