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CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

28 Mar 2017 07:30

"All we need now is for Brailsford to come out and give a Nixonian "I am not a crook" statement."
Already done - “We remain confident that the allegation is false and that there has been no wrongdoing by Team Sky or its employees"
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User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

28 Mar 2017 09:12

Robert5091 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling/team-sky-sir-bradley-wiggins-medical-records-lost-dropbox-a7652936.html
"“I found [Dropbox] difficult to use, having on-going concerns about its security and greater confidence in my own system of note keeping,” Freeman said in a submission which stated that he had been instrumental in setting up the use of the software to create a central store of medical records."
good grief ...


That's a fair point about the security of dropbox. I wouldn't want my medical records kept on it.
bigcog
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

28 Mar 2017 09:13

Robert5091 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39411057
Ex-Team Sky doctor's evidence leaves 'major questions', says MP Damian Collins -
The Doc's taking the fall - nothing to see here, move on ... Geezus


From that article:

He said "only Fluimucil was contained in the package sent" and he had requested it "a day or two before the end of the Dauphine".


Seriously? They were in f$%^ing Les Gets a day or two before the end of the Dauphine!! I thought one of the arguments for the ridiculous flight was he wasn't near somewhere he had prescription rights?
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Re:

28 Mar 2017 09:13

Robert5091 wrote:"All we need now is for Brailsford to come out and give a Nixonian "I am not a crook" statement."
Already done - “We remain confident that the allegation is false and that there has been no wrongdoing by Team Sky or its employees"


The C21 adopts the weasel words "no wrong-doing" spin.
;)
as the poet wrote:
if a guiding light’s
no longer seen
in being right
I don’t find it hid among
this simply “not being wrong”.
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28 Mar 2017 12:07

Article up on cyclingnews now and I noticed this quote:

In the last 7 years I’m aware of only a handful of riders in either team being referred to hospital for image guided triamcinolone injection for clinical need, with none needing a TUE,” Freeman’s statement reveals.


I have bolded the important part. BC had 55 vials of triamcinolone in their stash which they claimed was mainly used to treat staff and some riders. But now Freeman is claiming that the riders were referred to hospital for treatment. Obviously you don't need to take your own drugs to hospital with you, so at minimum this means that triamcinolone use is higher than we previously thought. I've not yet seen the document, does he mention treating non-riders at all? Does he say which team the riders were on?


His testimony is also completely at odds with Sutton and Brailsford, wonder what they're going to come up with next..?
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28 Mar 2017 12:25

Written evidence from Freeman here:

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/culture-media-and-sport-committee/combatting-doping-in-sport/written/49391.html

At no point does he ever mention administering triamcinolone to a member of team staff or any other rider, with the one presumably being Wiggins (but maybe not...). As we have been told that every other doctor followed team protocol and uploaded their medical records to the dropbox, that surely must mean there is a record of anyone else who received an injection of triamcinolone? But UKAD couldn't find any...

This is confusing:

The Dauphine in 2011 was also unique for me, as a high altitude training camp followed immediately after the race without the opportunity to return to my place of work to re-stock. I wanted to ensure I had enough supplies of medication if required at that training camp, having used up some of my present stock during the race.


How much fluimucil was in this package? I thought it was a small package but this makes it sound like he'd run out and asked for a load extra to be brought over. If only fluimucil was in the package that implies he managed the stock of other medications he had with him very well, so why didn't this happen with fluimucil? Was more than usual used? Surely if he knew they were having a high altitude training camp he would have taken a lot extra? Especially as his evidence contains this statement:

The use of this medication by nebuliser, is believed by many doctors to be mucolytic, which is helpful in managing stage riders, who as they compete in adverse weather, at high altitudes for 5-6 hours per day are prone to chestiness and excess respiratory mucus production.


Sounds like exactly what they were off to do after the race, yet the package has been described as small, probably containing, at most, a few doses. Did they claim that it only contained the fluimucil needed?

If it were possible this is getting harder and harder to believe...
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Re: Re:

28 Mar 2017 12:27

bigcog wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling/team-sky-sir-bradley-wiggins-medical-records-lost-dropbox-a7652936.html
"“I found [Dropbox] difficult to use, having on-going concerns about its security and greater confidence in my own system of note keeping,” Freeman said in a submission which stated that he had been instrumental in setting up the use of the software to create a central store of medical records."
good grief ...


That's a fair point about the security of dropbox. I wouldn't want my medical records kept on it.

Better to have just one copy on a laptop and take that all over the world. Or better still no records at all, just keep it all in your head. Can't get more secure than that. I'm struggling to keep up with which of these methods Doc Freeman was going for in 2011 or since
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Re: Re:

28 Mar 2017 15:25

Eyeballs Out wrote:
bigcog wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling/team-sky-sir-bradley-wiggins-medical-records-lost-dropbox-a7652936.html
"“I found [Dropbox] difficult to use, having on-going concerns about its security and greater confidence in my own system of note keeping,” Freeman said in a submission which stated that he had been instrumental in setting up the use of the software to create a central store of medical records."
good grief ...


That's a fair point about the security of dropbox. I wouldn't want my medical records kept on it.

Better to have just one copy on a laptop and take that all over the world. Or better still no records at all, just keep it all in your head. Can't get more secure than that. I'm struggling to keep up with which of these methods Doc Freeman was going for in 2011 or since


Yes probably, dropbox globally accessible to anyone and thus open to being hacked ...
bigcog
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Re: Re:

28 Mar 2017 15:26

bigcog wrote:
Eyeballs Out wrote:
bigcog wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling/team-sky-sir-bradley-wiggins-medical-records-lost-dropbox-a7652936.html
"“I found [Dropbox] difficult to use, having on-going concerns about its security and greater confidence in my own system of note keeping,” Freeman said in a submission which stated that he had been instrumental in setting up the use of the software to create a central store of medical records."
good grief ...


That's a fair point about the security of dropbox. I wouldn't want my medical records kept on it.

Better to have just one copy on a laptop and take that all over the world. Or better still no records at all, just keep it all in your head. Can't get more secure than that. I'm struggling to keep up with which of these methods Doc Freeman was going for in 2011 or since


Yes probably, dropbox globally accessible to anyone and thus open to being hacked ...


Dropbox is not globally available but the internet is, that's what makes it hackable. Dropbox only exists in its datacenters in CA, USA.
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28 Mar 2017 15:47

Talk about lingchi, Sky/BC are really taking their time being done with it.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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Re: CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

28 Mar 2017 18:30

King Boonen wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39411057
Ex-Team Sky doctor's evidence leaves 'major questions', says MP Damian Collins -
The Doc's taking the fall - nothing to see here, move on ... Geezus


From that article:

He said "only Fluimucil was contained in the package sent" and he had requested it "a day or two before the end of the Dauphine".


Seriously? They were in f$%^ing Les Gets a day or two before the end of the Dauphine!! I thought one of the arguments for the ridiculous flight was he wasn't near somewhere he had prescription rights?


Yep - 1 hr away from the Swiss pharmacy and on the route that day, 15 minutes from the Swiss pharmacy, just in case ANY ONE ALIVE believes that shite about not being able to buy it in France and not having prescription rights.

Plus his expenses claims state he went to pick up the package on 8th June. A day or four before the end of the Dauphine.

As for that 'being instrumental in setting up systems.' and his 'confidence in his own systems' It's farcical. I keep better records of my charity tuck shop than these guys!
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28 Mar 2017 22:14

From the Doc's statement,
"I have never encountered a winning at all costs attitude in these organisations. Indeed both organisations have indeed allowed me to care for my patients protecting me from the performance demands that exist to win in elite sport."
So, explain why you were stopped from getting a TUE for Wiggins at 2013 Tour of Britain by another Sky doctor?
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07 Apr 2017 08:56

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4388778/Chivers-says-current-problems-make-sad.html
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39521974
British Cycling have appointed a new human resources boss in Michael Chivers - British Cycling's first 'people director' (ugh?) Chivers, sad ... WTF? have we sunk to Trump's level?
"In his new role he will bring in "behaviours" workshops ..." (oh, good grief ... )
"Chivers has been working for the crisis-hit organisation as a consultant since November ..." He's a friggin' consultant for f**** sake!

Getting out in front of the narative ... British taxpayers money being put to good, no, great use! :rolleyes:
Last edited by Robert5091 on 07 Apr 2017 12:07, edited 1 time in total.
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07 Apr 2017 12:07

and will the next defender of BC please step up ...
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39527039
Sir Chris Hoy: Six-time Olympic champion defends British Cycling
Scottish former track cyclist Hoy, 41, said they were "upsetting and incredibly sad to read".

But he added he felt the subject had become "sensationalised" through "very public mudslinging and media coverage".
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18 Apr 2017 21:06

Anyone have any idea how the snap election will effect this?

Damian Collins is a Conservative, the polls suggest that he'll be around after the election. Does the Committee carry on or is it dissolved never to be reformed?
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Re: Re:

19 Apr 2017 02:09

bigcog wrote:
Eyeballs Out wrote:
bigcog wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling/team-sky-sir-bradley-wiggins-medical-records-lost-dropbox-a7652936.html
"“I found [Dropbox] difficult to use, having on-going concerns about its security and greater confidence in my own system of note keeping,” Freeman said in a submission which stated that he had been instrumental in setting up the use of the software to create a central store of medical records."
good grief ...


That's a fair point about the security of dropbox. I wouldn't want my medical records kept on it.

Better to have just one copy on a laptop and take that all over the world. Or better still no records at all, just keep it all in your head. Can't get more secure than that. I'm struggling to keep up with which of these methods Doc Freeman was going for in 2011 or since


Yes probably, dropbox globally accessible to anyone and thus open to being hacked ...

Yet systems like Drop box and One drive are considered secure enough for Corporate use by some of the world's largest companies :lol:

Nice try :D
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19 Apr 2017 05:28

wansteadimp wrote:Anyone have any idea how the snap election will effect this?

Damian Collins is a Conservative, the polls suggest that he'll be around after the election. Does the Committee carry on or is it dissolved never to be reformed?

see http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/committees/select/

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/committees/select/election-of-hoc-select-committee-chairs/

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/
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19 Apr 2017 19:19

Just a note in case people missed it.

Due to the early election, any committee report will not come until after the election date.
This is due to the rules of Purdah. Only regular ongoing routine communications can be released from 6 weeks before the election
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Re:

19 Apr 2017 19:43

Catwhoorg wrote:Just a note in case people missed it.

Due to the early election, any committee report will not come until after the election date.
This is due to the rules of Purdah. Only regular ongoing routine communications can be released from 6 weeks before the election
There was no CMS committee report due before the election. You're mixing this up with the UK Sport story.
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27 Apr 2017 06:45

Yeah, not to be mixed up with -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4399834/British-Cycling-bullying-report-delayed-May.html
"The publication of a report into claims of bullying within the Great Britain team has been postponed again until May ..."
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