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CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 16:41

pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.
53*11
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 17:36

53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.
yaco
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 17:37

53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


DCMS II ain't gonna happen. I posted that link on this thread because the MP said the judiciary might get involved. And the MPs have the inside line on what's been going on and what will go on. Their report was (even with the benefit of parliamentary privilege) tame compared to what it could have been

With regard to the posters on here in denial & agony (nice phrase btw) don't forget their are cycling journos going through the same contortions. At least one on here :rolleyes:
Wiggo's Package
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 17:51

yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.



You are putting the cart before the horse. The purpose of select committees is to ensure the department is doing it's job properly. You've seen the report...it makes recommendations, which in turn are to steer the department and the legislature in the direction of better mansgement of modern sport.

The whole question of rules being broken is moot. It is not cut and dried for if it were Sky would already be gone. What the report suggests is that Sky are an unethical team, and the DCMS do not view it as acceptable. A view which most of us here share.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2018 14:24

yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!
53*11
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21 Mar 2018 15:12

You are a very good at completely failing to understand somebody's post and turning it right around so that you can point your finger.

Take a deeeeep breath and go back and have another go at reading yaco's post.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

21 Mar 2018 15:17

macbindle wrote:You are a very good at completely failing to understand somebody's post and turning it right around so that you can point your finger.

Take a deeeeep breath and go back and have another go at reading yaco's post.


thanks ! its very easy when this is the ultimate logical conclusion to what he posted.
53*11
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2018 19:08

53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!


At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one's that found the Olympic Medal Program through the lottery - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.
Last edited by yaco on 22 Mar 2018 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
yaco
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Re: Re:

21 Mar 2018 19:11

macbindle wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
pastronef wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.


ghhghghgh :D


however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.



You are putting the cart before the horse. The purpose of select committees is to ensure the department is doing it's job properly. You've seen the report...it makes recommendations, which in turn are to steer the department and the legislature in the direction of better mansgement of modern sport.

The whole question of rules being broken is moot. It is not cut and dried for if it were Sky would already be gone. What the report suggests is that Sky are an unethical team, and the DCMS do not view it as acceptable. A view which most of us here share.


My post is not stating RULES have been broken - It's showing that ultimately politician's fund organisations like BC, so they will take the backslaps when MEDALS are won, but take no responsibility when there are problems - And the silly public fail to see this issue.
yaco
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Posts: 3,884
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

21 Mar 2018 19:53

Perhaps you didn't realise the DCMS consists of politicians?

Can you give me an example of a politician involved in directing funds to BC taking credit for medals?
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

22 Mar 2018 00:15

macbindle wrote:Perhaps you didn't realise the DCMS consists of politicians?

Can you give me an example of a politician involved in directing funds to BC taking credit for medals?


They don't take credit, but they like to associate themselves with sporting success, basking in the reflected glory. This is pretty standard for all governments. It's why they invest in sport.
Parker
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 09:30

yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467][b]



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!


At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!
53*11
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Posts: 140
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 16:50

53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467][b]



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!


At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!


The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?
yaco
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Posts: 3,884
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 17:48

yaco wrote:The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?
It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.
User avatar fmk_RoI
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 18:09

fmk_RoI wrote:
yaco wrote:The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?
It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.


Thanks for the informative link - Possibly we can deduce the politicians don't practice what they preach.
yaco
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Posts: 3,884
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 18:43

yaco wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
yaco wrote:The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?
It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.


Thanks for the informative link - Possibly we can deduce the politicians don't practice what they preach.
You will deduce whatever suits your prejudices.
User avatar fmk_RoI
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2018 08:46

[/url]"]
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467]



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!


At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?![/quote]

[b]The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?[/quote]

no the point is your deflection tactics; you are arguing the DCMS were at fault for funding and not controlling BC/sky; not the content of the criticism of their report. you could just as easily argue why are committees not investigating football, rugby, athletics, tennis to the same degree; its a different,circular argument
53*11
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23 Mar 2018 09:31

Call
Me
Stoopid.........................but was this not going to be the death of team sky?

Mark L
User avatar ebandit
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Posts: 4,050
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2018 17:44

53*11 wrote:[/url]"]
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
53*11 wrote:[quote="[url=http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467]



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.


ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!


At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!


[b]The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?[/quote]

no the point is your deflection tactics; you are arguing the DCMS were at fault for funding and not controlling BC/sky; not the content of the criticism of their report. you could just as easily argue why are committees not investigating football, rugby, athletics, tennis to the same degree; its a different,circular argument[/quote]

The DCMS cover a wide portfolio which includes all sport and recreation from the professional to the amateur level and even general fitness/health in the community - To say I'm deflecting from the report fails to acknowledge the systemic ABUSE of the honor's list in British society - It's not so hard for a sportsperson to receive an honour or even a knighthood for their sporting exploits - You need to be trusting to think all these sportspeople who receive honors are CLEAN - Sporting success is richly rewarded by British politicians who will overlook the foibles of athletes, but then grandstand when necessary.
yaco
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23 Mar 2018 18:54

The DCMS investigation into doping and sport started when the Sunday Times splashed a leaked IAAF report showing a top British athlete had dodgy blood values. One of the MPs used parliamentary privilege to say (or make very obvious, can't remember) that athlete was Paula Radcliffe

Then the Wiggo's jiffybag saga blew up and the MPs added that to their remit. Partly because it soon became apparent that UKAD were incapable of running an effective investigation

Mo Farah's dodgy injections and Dan Stevens' allegations also got an airing. Seb Coe played the shifty politician card perfectly
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