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Cardiac Anomalies - is something going on or is this normal?

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10 Apr 2018 16:47

Deutsche Weil have posted a rather silly article. One point from it though:
According to a study by the French magazine Nouvel Observateur, the mortality rate among Tour de France competitors is almost three times higher than that of the general population.
Conventional wisdom has it that, because of cycling's long-standing doping problem, cyclists die younger than other people. To support this claim fans can point to the early deaths of Fausto Coppi (dead at 40), Gastone Nencini (dead at 49), Hugo Koblet (dead at 39), Tom Simpson (dead at 29), Roger Rivière (dead at 40), Louison Bobet (dead at 58), Jacques Anquetil (dead at 53), Luis Ocaña (dead at 48), Marco Pantani (dead at 34), and Laurent Fignon (dead at 50).

They can also point to research carried out by Jean-Pierre de Mondenard, published in Nouvel Observateur using this to support the claim that that "even though the link with doping has not been established, it is known that the life expectancy of those who have taken part in the Tour de France is lower than average."

De Mondenard's study – carried out in the 1990s – had looked at 667 former Tour riders (across multiple nationalities - how he 'corrected' for differing mortality rates in each country is not clear - though the report is frequently referenced I have never been able to find a copy of it) who raced between 1960 and 1990 and found that their mortality rate was higher than normal. This was especially true, it was claimed, of riders who entered the peloton after 1961, with De Mondenard saying that was down to the rise of doping.

However, in 2013 a team led by Eloi Marijon of the Paris Cardiovascular Centre presented an alternative take which flatly contradicted De Mondenard's findings. This study – Centenary of the Tour de France Group: Mortality of French Participants from the Tour de France 1947-2012 – looked at all 786 French Tour participants between 1947 and 2012, of whom 208 (26%) were known to have died by September 1, 2012.

Marijon and his team found that their mortality rate was 41% lower than that of the average French male. The team actually found that the average French Tour participant has added six years to his expected lifespan.

Marijon and his team also claimed that the French Tour veterans have shown a 33% lower risk of fatal heart attacks or strokes than the general population. Among the causes of death, Tour veterans were lower in all categories – including cancer – with the sole exception being death from traumatic injury, which is seen as an occupational hazard in cycling.

The main causes of death were given as neoplasms (including cancer) (32.2%), cardiovascular diseases (29%), infectious diseases (2.2%), endocrine and nutritional diseases (2.2%), neurological (2.2%), digestive system diseases (2.2%), and genitourinary disease (1.1%).

The mortality rates were consistent across all eras (1947-70, when the main doping was amphetamines; 1971-1990 when doping had moved on to steroids; and 1991-2012, when HGH and EPO were the main doping agents) and age groups, with the exception of the current generation of under 30-year-olds, where a non-significant higher death rate was observed, largely caused by "a particularly high frequency of traffic or race accident deaths."

The study was largely inspired by claims that, rather than being good for you, high-level physical exercise actually has long-term deleterious effects. The authors were also inspired by concerns regarding the use of performance enhancing drugs, particularly in the years sine the Second World War. The report's key results, as summarised by Marijon and his team, are as follows:
"Among the 786 French cyclists who participated at least once in the Tour, 208 (26%) were known to have died by Sept 01, 2012. Compared to the general population, the overall SMR [Standard Mortality Ratio] was 0.59 (95% CI, 0.51–0.68, P<0.0001), with highly similar results over time. The mean additional life expectancy, compared to the general population, was estimated at 6.3±2 years. We observed a significant reduction in cardiovascular (SMR=0.68, 95% CI, 0.51–0.89, P=0.006) and cancer (0.51, 95% CI, 0.38–0.66, P<0.0001) deaths, whereas mortality related to accidents was similar (1.02, 95% CI, 0.67–1.49, P=0.90)."
Beyond the fact that French Tour veterans have lived longer than average, the conclusions that can be drawn from this study are far from clear. Comparing elite cyclists with the general population is fraught with danger. The French Tour veterans may have had a superior genetic endowment which itself may impact their life expectancy. Or, even allowing for the effects of doping, the benefit from participation in such a demanding sport may simply be down to a generally healthier lifestyle. Or, the higher mortality rates among the general population may be partly impacted by chronic diseases which rule out a sporting career.
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Re:

10 Apr 2018 18:42

fmk_RoI wrote:Deutsche Weil have posted a rather silly article. One point from it though:
According to a study by the French magazine Nouvel Observateur, the mortality rate among Tour de France competitors is almost three times higher than that of the general population.

Claiming your odds are three times as great of being immortal if you don't compete in la Grande Boucle also to me seems a bit silly.
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Re: Re:

10 Apr 2018 20:58

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Deutsche Weil have posted a rather silly article. One point from it though:
According to a study by the French magazine Nouvel Observateur, the mortality rate among Tour de France competitors is almost three times higher than that of the general population.

Claiming your odds are three times as great of being immortal if you don't compete in la Grande Boucle also to me seems a bit silly.

Heroes get remembered, legends never die.*



*Just a silly joke referring to a surely apocryphal "Babe Ruth" quote.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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11 Apr 2018 08:52

Found this today:
* Three riders who have been part of Veranda's roster have died of cardiac arrest in recent years: Rob Goris (2012), Daan Myngheer (2016) and Goolaerts.
* UCI demands yearly checks for cardiac condition but these are run by the teams. Members of the UCI Medical Commission are demanding a change on this so that the decision to declare a rider fit (or not) to race is taken by a medical authority not linked to the teams.
* Nevertheless, experts point out that these checks are not 100% reliable as predictors of cardiac arrests.

http://www.elmundo.es/deportes/2018/04/11/5acd1b9422601da36f8b4693.html
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Re:

11 Apr 2018 09:00

ice&fire wrote:Found this today:
* Three riders who have been part of Veranda's roster have died of cardiac arrest in recent years: Rob Goris (2012), Daan Myngheer (2016) and Goolaerts.
* UCI demands yearly checks for cardiac condition but these are run by the teams. Members of the UCI Medical Commission are demanding a change on this so that the decision to declare a rider fit (or not) to race is taken by a medical authority not linked to the teams.
* Nevertheless, experts point out that these checks are not 100% reliable as predictors of cardiac arrests.

http://www.elmundo.es/deportes/2018/04/11/5acd1b9422601da36f8b4693.html
Much of that has already been posted, it's a syndicated AFP story. And no one is "demanding" anything - stop sensationalising such a sensitive topic, please.

Further, if you are going to go for sensationalism, could you at least check some facts? Goris rode for Accent Jobs–Willems Veranda, today's Wanty–Groupe Gobert, while Myngheer was riding with Roubaix-Lille Métropole.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 12:21

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Deutsche Weil have posted a rather silly article. One point from it though:
According to a study by the French magazine Nouvel Observateur, the mortality rate among Tour de France competitors is almost three times higher than that of the general population.

Claiming your odds are three times as great of being immortal if you don't compete in la Grande Boucle also to me seems a bit silly.


Are you telling me that the simple act of not riding the TdF - something I am physically incapable of doing - does not make me immortal?
Damn...
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 13:24

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Deutsche Weil have posted a rather silly article. One point from it though:
According to a study by the French magazine Nouvel Observateur, the mortality rate among Tour de France competitors is almost three times higher than that of the general population.

Claiming your odds are three times as great of being immortal if you don't compete in la Grande Boucle also to me seems a bit silly.


Silly article illustrated needlessly with a photo of the poor kid literally dying on the side of the road. I'm sure we, and more importantly his family didn't need to see that. :sad:
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Re:

11 Apr 2018 18:48

fmk_RoI wrote:Another name to add to the list: Ramunas Navarduaskas


I looked a bit into this question of sudden deaths in cycling and other sports. I did find an interesting article on Forbes.com.
Here is an excerpt:

Sudden deaths in marathon running have been the subject of much study in the cardiology and sports medicine fields because they are rare and somewhat unpredictable occurrences. Research estimates range from 0.5 to 2 deaths per 100,000 marathon runners in a given race, a far lower risk of death than in the majority of daily activities.

Dr. Dan Tunstall Pedoe, the London Marathon's Medical Director from 1981 to 2006, wrote in the journal, Sports Medicine, that an increase in marathon popularity as one contributor to the apparent increase in long-distance racing deaths.

Dr. Pedoe examined the records of documented sudden deaths across 650,000 marathon completions during that time, concluding that such risk in the London Marathon was 1 in 80,000 finishers. That's not far removed from London's two deaths in the last three years across about 105,000 runners (although the 2012 death of 30-year-old Claire Squiershas been primarily attributed to her use of a sports supplement containing the amphetamine-like drug, DMAA.).
---------
Therefore we see that in foot racing, marathon type, there is roughly speaking 1 sudden death per 400 000 hours of competition.
It can easily be verified by anybody that the rate in cycling - pro, mass start events like granfondos (cyclosportives) in particular - is far lower. I let you guys and girls draw your own conclusions.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 19:14

Le breton wrote:It can easily be verified by anybody that the rate in cycling - pro, mass start events like granfondos (cyclosportives) in particular - is far lower. I let you guys and girls draw your own conclusions.
As you're opening this out to such a wide population, you'd better provide the proof to support your theory. Do you have any, apart from a gut feeling?

You should also note that there is a world of difference between the Freds taking on marathons and World Tour cyclists being discussed here, particularly WRT medical monitoring.

Finally, you need to provide a link to that article so people can read it for themselves...
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 19:39

Finally, you need to provide a link to that article so people can read it for themselves...[/quote]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2014/04/15/why-do-healthy-people-die-running-marathons/#2c46f2401363
It took me 2 seconds to find it just by quoting half a sentence from the excerpt.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 19:54

You probably have heard of "La Marmotte", the Alps cyclosportive that was instrumental in starting in 1982 the social phenomenon of this type of events.
It's a 174 km event with about 4900 m uphill.
About 7000 cyclists compete in it and their riding times go roughly from 6h to 13h.
Let's take 10 h as an average. That is 70 000 hours of cycling every year.
It's roughly the same crowd taken from the general sporting population.

If the marathon rule of thumb applied, we would expect an average of 1 sudden death in that event every 6 years or so. In the past 25 years I have heard of 1 occurence (it's somewhere in my memory, but I can't remember the specifics).
I launched that idea because I thought readers might want to do their own calculation (as I have done also for the TdF)
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 20:01

Le breton wrote:You probably have heard of "La Marmotte", the Alps cyclosportive that was instrumental in starting in 1982 the social phenomenon of this type of events.
It's a 174 km event with about 4900 m uphill.
About 7000 cyclists compete in it and their riding times go roughly from 6h to 13h.
Let's take 10 h as an average. That is 70 000 hours of cycling every year.
It's roughly the same crowd taken from the general sporting population.

If the marathon rule of thumb applied, we would expect an average of 1 sudden death in that event every 6 years or so. In the past 25 years I have heard of 1 occurence (it's somewhere in my memory, but I can't remember the specifics).
I launched that idea because I thought readers might want to do their own calculation (as I have done also for the TdF)
Given the actual subject of this discussion (cardiac anomalies) the incidence of arrhythmia within that sector of the sportive population is what?
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 20:27

[/quote]Given the actual subject of this discussion (cardiac anomalies) the incidence of arrhythmia within that sector of the sportive population is what?[/quote]
You can easily imagine that such information in not any easier to find among cyclists than it would be in the marathon crowd.
Sudden deaths are reported and known but less dramatic events tend to be known only by the specific persons and their friends.

Sorry for bringing in your topic uninteresting considerations.
I'll try not to intrude in your reserved garden in the future.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 21:23

Le breton wrote:You can easily imagine that such information in not any easier to find among cyclists than it would be in the marathon crowd.
Sudden deaths are reported and known but less dramatic events tend to be known only by the specific persons and their friends.
It would appear to be as easy to find as data on deaths in sportives, seeing as you offer none save poor memory and one event.

There is a reason for trying to focus this discussion on elite level sport: we have the data and don't need to rely on anecdotes, selective memory, or poor journalism.
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Re: Re:

11 Apr 2018 21:35

There is a reason for trying to focus this discussion on elite level sport: we have the data and don't need to rely on anecdotes, selective memory, or poor journalism.[/quote]

You didn't even read what I wrote.
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11 Apr 2018 21:45

You wrote
It can easily be verified by anybody that the rate in cycling - pro, mass start events like granfondos (cyclosportives) in particular - is far lower. I let you guys and girls draw your own conclusions.
You offer poor memory of one incident at one event (one incident among multiple fatalities at that event, correct?) and admit that the evidence for the actual subject being discussed here is difficult to find. So, reading what you wrote, you're contradicting yourself.
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12 Apr 2018 04:03

Fmk_rol. Not sure if you realize this, however you are coming off as being quite condescending. Perhaps you are smarter than the rest of us, and just making sure we all know.
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12 Apr 2018 11:13

Grégory Habeaux (35), who mostly rode at pro-conti level, calls it quits on his career:
'I had an alert last November, a sudden tachycardia. I passed the exams and I received a first green light but I soon felt that I did not return to the level. I had a new weakness in Paris-Troyes, another in training on March 19. I did my breathing exercises, finished the session but I put my bike down saying "That's it, I stop".'
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12 Apr 2018 12:59

An attempt was made earlier to link several cases of cardiac anomalies to the one sponsor.

Playing join the dots is easy. There's 20-something names in this thread, for 'cross, WT and Pro-Conti riders. Those 20-odd riders, they produce a list of about 120 different name sponsors across the full length of each rider's career. In that list of 120 or so different name sponsors, some crop up with more frequency than others, with two dozen or so getting multiple entries.

SEVEN
Omega Pharma (Aerts, Kaisen, Lodewyck, Meersman, Myngheer, Rogers, Vansummeren)

SIX
Lotto (Aerts, Goolaerts, Kaisen, Lodewyck, Meersman, Vansummeren)

FIVE
Willems Verandas (Goolaerts, Goris, Habeaux, Myngheer, Zingle)

FOUR
Quick Step (Kaisen, Meersman, Rogers, Vansummeren)
Rabobank (Boom, Gesink, Lodewyck, Walker)

THREE
Latexco (Kaisen, Rogers, Vansummeren)
Palmans (Aerts, Goris, Habeaux)
T-Mobile (Aerts, Kirchen, Rogers)

TWO
Accent Job (Goris, Habeaux)
AG2R (Portal, Vansummeren)
Astana (Boom, Zubeldia)
Barracuda (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
Belisol (Kaisen, Meersman)
Belkin (Boom, Gesink)
Cervélo (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
Columbia (Kirchen, Rogers)
Cras (Albert, Goris)
Garmin (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
HighRoad (Kirchen, Rogers)
HTC (Kirchen, Rogers)
Jumbo (Boom, Gesink)
LottoNL (Boom, Gesink)
Sky (Portal, Rogers)
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Re:

13 Apr 2018 17:53

fmk_RoI wrote:An attempt was made earlier to link several cases of cardiac anomalies to the one sponsor.

Playing join the dots is easy. There's 20-something names in this thread, for 'cross, WT and Pro-Conti riders. Those 20-odd riders, they produce a list of about 120 different name sponsors across the full length of each rider's career. In that list of 120 or so different name sponsors, some crop up with more frequency than others, with two dozen or so getting multiple entries.

SEVEN
Omega Pharma (Aerts, Kaisen, Lodewyck, Meersman, Myngheer, Rogers, Vansummeren) Belgium

SIX
Lotto (Aerts, Goolaerts, Kaisen, Lodewyck, Meersman, Vansummeren) Belgium


FIVE
Willems Verandas (Goolaerts, Goris, Habeaux, Myngheer, Zingle) Belgium

FOUR
Quick Step (Kaisen, Meersman, Rogers, Vansummeren) Belgium

Rabobank (Boom, Gesink, Lodewyck, Walker) Netherlands


THREE
Latexco (Kaisen, Rogers, Vansummeren)
Palmans (Aerts, Goris, Habeaux)
T-Mobile (Aerts, Kirchen, Rogers)

TWO
Accent Job (Goris, Habeaux)
AG2R (Portal, Vansummeren)
Astana (Boom, Zubeldia)
Barracuda (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
Belisol (Kaisen, Meersman)
Belkin (Boom, Gesink)
Cervélo (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
Columbia (Kirchen, Rogers)
Cras (Albert, Goris)
Garmin (Navardauskas, Vansummeren)
HighRoad (Kirchen, Rogers)
HTC (Kirchen, Rogers)
Jumbo (Boom, Gesink)
LottoNL (Boom, Gesink)
Sky (Portal, Rogers)


Interesting geographic distribution of the teams with the most cardiac events noted.
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