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Doping in XC mtb

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

14 Sep 2017 02:55

papisimo98 wrote:The WC results are always worth taking a peek at. The results always seem a little strange, like the Olympic race.

Strange how?
jmdirt
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09 Oct 2017 18:40

jmdirt
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09 Oct 2017 20:14

When there was big money in MTB, i.e. the 1990s-early 2000s when I was flailing around the amateur circuit in California, I'm sure there was plenty of doping. I'm sure there is today, too, but likely on a smaller scale.

Schurter is....unbelievable. Have not seen that kind of domination since...Absalon...and Juli Furtado...to be honest MTB seems to breed super freaks -- nowhere to hide bad skills or undercooked preparation, so fit, talented and committed guys like NS can thrash all comers with regularity. As for why more don't jump to the road: Maybe the just like riding off road better. Who wants to suffer for 4-5 hours in some cold, boring Belgian "semi-classic" when you can roll into the Alps in the summer sunshine and be done with your race in 90 minutes or so?
Bolder
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11 Oct 2017 16:14

My physical talent got me a decent way around 2000. I'm a bit of a freak of nature, and not too clumsy on a mountainbike. Louzy in crits mostly because the kinds of accelerations didn't suit me, and my long legs and broad shoulders just create way too much air resistance, even with my decent engine. I am, contrary to popular belief, more built for hills, and was actually better than most anyone on the extremely steep up, as least technically (or, I hated dismounting more than others).
The way the pros thrashed me was not even funny though. Sure, they trained a good bit more, but the difference were just so huge. I woould have a good day and still be lapped in Cyclo Cross, on a super easy course. In XC, I'd be lapped even on a track with lots of singletrack where I didn't lose significant time. On the beach, in winter (off-season to most), I'd be able to hang with pros suddenly, despite the aero, despite the rolling resistance. For year I thought it was my lungs working better in the winter somehow. Now I know it was just because the fanatic riders took it more easy medically.

I am fact aware of clean riders who were better than me, don't misunderstand me. They trained better, wanted it more,, great support teams/family. They still didn't make it as pros, semi-pro at best. Sure, some will make it clean, but how many remain that we can unanimously trust?
Cloxxki
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12 Oct 2017 12:47

I need to start with: I'm not bashing you, and I realize I'm not comparing the same time frame since I was Pro in the mid '90s. Also, I will will never say never with doping because I know that people will do anything to win. maybe I was one of the dumb ones not enhancing.

If you were getting lapped then you aren't a genetic freak. I'm not a genetic freak and was never that far behind the top guys. I think that we get into the frame of mind that we are the fastest guy in our neighborhood, group, town, state so why not the country or the world. I was the fastest in my town, and one of the fastest in my state, but trips to other states and/or nats put me against guys who were also the best, and also better than me. You mentioned the beach so maybe you are in Cali. Racing in Cali was like racing nats because there were always a lot of fast guys. Not unrealistically fast though, just 50 guys all within three minutes of the front.

This is where it gets to one of the points in my disclaimer. I didn't suspect that doping had crept into USA dirt racing until some of the guys I listed upthread suddenly became drastically faster. So maybe that was the time that you were hitting the scene. The other thing to consider is what their goal was while riding on the beach. Maybe they were just out enjoying the beach, spinning their legs, or as you said, they turned their glow off for the winter.
jmdirt
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17 Oct 2017 03:17

jmdirt
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Re: Re:

19 Oct 2017 16:13

sniper wrote:
papisimo98 wrote:Raced XC mt bikes since 94 up until 2012 when the courses have become too short.
FM was a big bust at the time I believe he was World Champion. I forgot the name of the cyclist who gave Miguel Martinez him his spot after admitting doping.
MR the chicken comes from the mt bike arena. Supposedly he taught the Canadians how to dope(think Ryder, Seamus, etc). Alan Labatka is another very shady character.
I always wondered about JK and how he came out of nowhere and how he goes back there, and pops up again. Jose Hermida might have had ties to Puerto.
It wouldn't surprise me if there is rampant doping, it also wouldn't surprise me if there was very little. Mt bike racers don't make a ton of coin and that stuff can get expensive(as opposed to the multi-millionaire mid lifer trying amateur races).
As for Nino, I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the sauce however, he has been a champ since he was a teen, he has won everything at every level(remember him crying after he flatted in the U23 WC and lost). Also, he is just technically superior on the bike to everyone else right now. He rides down things that most walk creating huge gaps and making the others work really hard on the ups to catch him.
Now the motor thing really throws everything upside down

Sagan also with an MTB background of course.

There were some interesting doping cases in the SA MTB scene.
David George was mainly MTB-ing when they caught him in 2012.
Rourke Croeser in 2015.
Both done for EPO.
Kevin Evans in 2016 for passport irregularities.

In the Netherlands we had Bas van Dooren testing positive in 2002 and lots of rumors regarding Bart Brentjes, who was trained by a doper (Theunisse) and worked/works with Trek.
Theunisse is seen as somebody who brought full throttle doping to the Dutch MTB scene.


As for motors in MTB, consumer models with silent hidden motors are available, so imo it's safe to assume pro's are/have been using, too:
Electric mountain bike with invisible engine?

After studies, trials, and staggering here is the perfect mountain bike.

The new solutions made it possible to build a bicycle with hidden engine. Apparently identical to the best mountai bikes traditionally.

The electric motor, lightweight, allows you to experience the most tiring bikes.

A Bhoss Cycling brand that once again impresses.
https://www.gazzettadellaspezia.it/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=52524:mtb-elettrica-motore-invisibile-bhoss&Itemid=9619


not really interesting in SA at all Sniper. David was using well well before any MTB days, he had been hit in Europe for HCT levels back at Postal days. Kevin and David were team mates for years and Rourke is/was part of the clan.

So basically its not that interesting at all.
Colonel
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