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Sunweb

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Sunweb

06 Sep 2017 09:43

Didn't see a topic for Sunweb.

Even though i'm Dutch and i think both Dumoulin and Kelderman certainly have talent i must say that i am shocked by the results of the team.

I can see this team win a GT or a couple of sprint stages or have the KOM-jersey or have a Vuelta podium.
However....
Dumoulin winner of the Giro d'Italia
Matthews winner of a bunch of Tour de France stages
Barguil winner of the KOM-jersey & 2 mountain stages in the TDF and 10th overall
Kelderman going for the podium in the Vuelta


Maybe i am pessimistic, but this makes my doping radar go on tilt....

How do you guys look at the team? Should i recalibrate my radar? Or is this starting to look quite dodgy?
Roninho
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06 Sep 2017 09:50

Sky has taught us that taking advantage of marginal gains can work wonders. Training in South Africa helps too and a ton of altitude work. Why wouldn't Sunweb do the same?
User avatar Rollthedice
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06 Sep 2017 11:09

Any team that is not being spat out the back of the peloton is dodgy.

Sunweb clearly learned some tricks from Sky; they're not quite there but they're getting closer.
DanielSong39
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06 Sep 2017 11:51

just developing the best u23 talents there are for years.. why is it suspicious some of them also become of the best when they are pro's later on?

they did the same with kittel and degenkolb, but then in sprint + classics
User avatar Dekker_Tifosi
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Re:

06 Sep 2017 11:54

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:just developing the best u23 talents there are for years.. why is it suspicious some of them also become of the best when they are pro's later on?

they did the same with kittel and degenkolb, but then in sprint + classics


Kittel the blood spinner?

Yeah teamSunweb are cleans, of course they are, they are nice and good boys.

:lol:
Last edited by Benotti69 on 13 Sep 2017 13:37, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar Benotti69
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06 Sep 2017 12:00

i'm not saying they are, i'm just saying it's not so sudden and unexpected when you have been buying a pick o the best u23 talents for years and develop them for years.
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Re:

06 Sep 2017 12:06

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:just developing the best u23 talents there are for years.. why is it suspicious some of them also become of the best when they are pro's later on?

they did the same with kittel and degenkolb, but then in sprint + classics


While i agree that Dumoulin and Kelderman progression looks almost believable, how do you think they are able to keep up with dopers in the third week? I really like them btw, i would love for them to be clean but it's hard to believe they are. At least they had good results since a young age, and while skinny they don't look completely gaunt, so i can actually watch them during a race without instantly thinking "this is preposterous".
Last edited by ColonelKidneyBeans on 06 Sep 2017 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
ColonelKidneyBeans
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Re:

06 Sep 2017 12:07

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:i'm not saying they are, i'm just saying it's not so sudden and unexpected when you have been buying a pick o the best u23 talents for years and develop them for years.

Which is why i mentioned in the opening post that the results by these riders in itself is not something that would be unbelievable to me, or better said these guys having career best results is not something that shocks me. However it is the combination of the level of their results (it's not just career best, it is for all a massive step upwards) and that all these riders are getting these results that makes my radar go off.
Roninho
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06 Sep 2017 12:15

Could just be a good year. I'll await the next years to see if there's something Sky'something going on.
If we have TDF train consisting of Kamna, Hofstede, Oomen, Kelderman and finally Dumoulin destroying the rest of the field like nothing, then it's something entirely different
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Re:

06 Sep 2017 12:36

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:i'm not saying they are, i'm just saying it's not so sudden and unexpected when you have been buying a pick o the best u23 talents for years and develop them for years.


That doesn't mean much in WT pro cycling.
User avatar Benotti69
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13 Sep 2017 13:30

Looking forward to the Sunweb train next season. Choo-choo!
DanielSong39
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13 Sep 2017 13:32

As for Matthews, he may become another Sagan. He sure looked like him in the Tour de France.
DanielSong39
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13 Sep 2017 20:26

Sunweb's current season is very reminiscent of Orica's 2016 season.
User avatar Alexandre B.
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 21:24

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:just developing the best u23 talents there are for years.. why is it suspicious some of them also become of the best when they are pro's later on?

they did the same with kittel and degenkolb, but then in sprint + classics

Doping programs are large, potentially risky investments. Starting with a good base of exceptionally naturally talented riders takes away some of that risk.

Who better than riders such as U23 World Champions (eg: Matthews), Tour de Lavenir winners (eg: Barguil), and multiple national TT champions (eg: Dumoulin)?
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Re: Re:

13 Sep 2017 21:31

42x16ss wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:just developing the best u23 talents there are for years.. why is it suspicious some of them also become of the best when they are pro's later on?

they did the same with kittel and degenkolb, but then in sprint + classics

Doping programs are large, potentially risky investments. Starting with a good base of exceptionally naturally talented riders takes away some of that risk.

Who better than riders such as U23 World Champions (eg: Matthews), Tour de Lavenir winners (eg: Barguil), and multiple national TT champions (eg: Dumoulin)?


Doping programs are a necessity in modern sport. Hence most WT with more than 1 doctor.

To be a WT rider one needs to be exceptional.

It is the reponse to the program and the risk a rider is willing to take to pursue their goals that marks them out for team captains, lieutenants etc
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Re: Sunweb

15 Sep 2017 11:41

Looks like they're odds-on to win the Men's Time Trial?

Dumoulin should be the favorite and Kelderman figures to contend. Should outpace the Froome/Kwiatkowski/Kiryienka trio from Sky.

Something must be wrong with Dennis and Roglic; normally Dennis would be the favorite and Roglic would be a strong contender.
DanielSong39
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Re: Sunweb

16 Sep 2017 20:48

DanielSong39 wrote:Looks like they're odds-on to win the Men's Time Trial?

Dumoulin should be the favorite and Kelderman figures to contend. Should outpace the Froome/Kwiatkowski/Kiryienka trio from Sky.

Something must be wrong with Dennis and Roglic; normally Dennis would be the favorite and Roglic would be a strong contender.

Dennis is close to invincible at the moment but only up to around 15-20 kms, then Dumoulin, Martin, Kiriyenka etc start taking over. He's probably the best TTTer around as well. I'd love to see him have a shot at the pursuit too.
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17 Sep 2017 15:10

Sunweb looked very convincing in proving they are clean in Worlds TTT.
MightyWheelSucker
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 15:16

Alexandre B. wrote:Sunweb's current season is very reminiscent of Orica's 2016 season.

It's even better.
User avatar Alexandre B.
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17 Sep 2017 15:44

No denyers

Nothing to see here
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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