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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Sunweb

20 Sep 2017 16:12

boy oh boy they are stepping up big time
pastronef
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20 Sep 2017 21:56

Matthews to win the road race?
DanielSong39
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Re:

21 Sep 2017 12:36

DanielSong39 wrote:Matthews to win the road race?


What will this prove ? Matthews 2nd and 4th in the last two editions - Suited by the parcours so has an undeniable chance - Maybe you can set up a thread for every rider who wins a race !
yaco
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22 Sep 2017 09:34

But yaco it's not only captains firepower but his team supporting firepower too..never seen that fabulous thunderbirds aka Team Sky doing dat team(fire)works..
memyselfandI
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Re: Sunweb

22 Sep 2017 13:52

Hmm, read something interesting in the Volkskrant today. There was a piece about Dumoulin and in the final part of that piece, it was about Sunweb's anti-doping stance.

They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..
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Re: Sunweb

22 Sep 2017 14:57

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Hmm, read something interesting in the Volkskrant today. There was a piece about Dumoulin and in the final part of that piece, it was about Sunweb's anti-doping stance.

They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..


JV made similar claims about having to spend half a million dollars* a year with internal anti doping tests. He didn't like it being pointed out it could also be used to stop riders testing positive.

*no one has confirmed whether JV actually did it. How does someone test riders who are all over half the world?
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Re: Sunweb

22 Sep 2017 15:40

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Hmm, read something interesting in the Volkskrant today. There was a piece about Dumoulin and in the final part of that piece, it was about Sunweb's anti-doping stance.

They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..


Of course it means that. And the whole world is buying it. Brilliant.
Incredible how easy it is. The more sophisticated you look, the more in control, the more professional, the more success you have, less suspicious you will be considered.
Pennino
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Re: Sunweb

22 Sep 2017 16:43

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Hmm, read something interesting in the Volkskrant today. There was a piece about Dumoulin and in the final part of that piece, it was about Sunweb's anti-doping stance.

They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..


It's the logical approach. Doping or not, internal testing will help the team "manage" it.

From a anti-dope perspective it does sound good. (if you know little about it)

Remember when Riis admitted his doping usage, they launched a massive internal testing regime on CSC.

They even released some graphs of rider values, though Rasmus Damgaard's integrity later came into question.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/csc-releases-internal-testing-results/

This is funny in hindsight:
More importantly, Team CSC is making genuine efforts to change its team culture so that riders no longer feel the need or pressure to dope. The combination of CSC's strong antidoping programme with their equally strong culture of hard, clean riding is certainly an example for other pro teams to follow," said McQuaid.


One could argue, even CSC were more "transparent" than the super duper all time clean SKY lol.

As for Sunweb, they seem to fly under (sometimes faux) media scrutiny, for now.
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Re: Sunweb

22 Sep 2017 23:33

The point of internal testing is to lessen the chance of your rider being nabbed by external testing.

That means making sure that your riders are not macro-dosing on drugs that are years out of date.
DanielSong39
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Re: Sunweb

23 Sep 2017 21:47

Whilst things may have changed at Sunweb, they do seem to have had some sort of anti-doping policies in place in previous years and some evidence of that has come out through the Dr.Janssen revelations/Thomas Dekker book.

>Skil/Sunweb are one of the few teams who hire primarily outside the ex pro brigade for team DS positions. Only Rudi Kemna was an ex-pro and he was made confess to doping, despite the fact there was zero pressure from outside the team for him to do so.

>Janssen was team doctor in 2007 when he adpoted his anti-doping stance and told Clement L'Hotellerie to cut out the doping.
>Then when Janssen joned Vacansoleil, his successor at Skil(who?) approached Janssen to check the French riders Blood values as they were suspicious of his performances, Janssen said they were out of whack and L'Hotellerie was gone at the end of the season.
>Thomas Dekker in his book stated that Skil-Shimano were a possible destination for him after Rabobank, but they were not exactly beating down his door. They asked for his blood values, but he refused to provide them, this combined with the riders on the team speaking against him ended any possible interest the team had in signing him.
>Laurens Ten Dam who was noted as a clean rider by Dekker has been a stalwart at the team for some years now.

In their former guise, they did tend to sign younger, non established riders, but the likes of Matthews/Kelderman have bucked that trend. I dont think Dumoulin was an establised rider when he signed for them.
pmcg76
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Re: Sunweb

25 Sep 2017 19:40

pmcg76 wrote:>Then when Janssen joned Vacansoleil, his successor at Skil(who?) approached Janssen to check the French riders Blood values as they were suspicious of his performances, Janssen said they were out of whack and L'Hotellerie was gone at the end of the season.


Janssen's successor was Edwin Achterberg, who later left to join Plugge's team and remained there until quite recently.
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Re: Sunweb

25 Sep 2017 22:33

DanielSong39 wrote:The point of internal testing is to lessen the chance of your rider being nabbed by external testing.

That means making sure that your riders are not macro-dosing on drugs that are years out of date.


This, and also a team will want assurances any out of competition medical treatment for injury, illness, recovery etc doesn't trip them up in competition either with UCI or MPCC. As long as there is list of substances you can use legally out of competition, but not in competition, you have to assume teams need to test those riders they know are taking substances banned if tested at the end of the race and pull them accordingly as you say. The grey area.
End of the day if a team has medical staff and doctors you have to assume they are not there to slice bread and pour glasses of water. That doesn't mean they step over the line, but it does mean riders will be treated with substances only allowed on one side of the line and not the other just like your tax return.
samhocking
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Re: Sunweb

21 Oct 2017 08:08

"We're happy to finalise our 2018 roster and are already looking forward to the year ahead," said Sunweb head of coaching Rudi Kamna. "With the new signings to the team we can make another step in our growth, alongside laying the foundations for the future with the addition of some huge talents. Talent development remains to be one of the core pillars of our elite sport approach. The focus this winter will be to make a smart, multi-year plan for each individual rider and offer them the scientific support structure to grow. It is a demanding approach and requires a lot of dedication and interaction between riders, movement scientists, coaches and scientific experts, in order for us to be able to optimise the ingredients for success across training, nutrition, data and equipment. After one of our most successful seasons to date, we're motivated to continue this momentum into the 2018 racing season."

Team Sunweb for 2018: Søren Kragh Andersen, Nikias Arndt, Phil Bauhaus, Roy Curvers, Laurens ten Dam, Tom Dumoulin, Johannes Fröhlinger, Simon Geschke, Chad Haga, Chris Hamilton, Jai Hindley, Lennard Hofstede, Wilco Kelderman, Lennard Kämna, Michael Matthews, Sam Oomen, Tom Stamsnijder, Michael Storer, Mike Teunissen, Edward Theuns, Albert Timmer, Martijn Tusveld, Louis Vervaeke, Max Walscheid

Transfers this year:

In: Martijn Tusveld (Roompot–Nederlandse Loterij), Edward Theuns (Trek-Segafredo), Louis Vervaeke (Lotto Soudal), Jai Hindley (Mitchelton Scott), Michael Storer (Mitchelton Scott)
Out: Ramon Sinkeldam (FDJ), Georg Preidler (FDJ), Warren Barguil (Fortuneo-Oscaro), Bert de Backer (Vital Concept), Zico Waeytens (Veranda's Willems - Crelan), Sindre Lunke (Fortuneo-Oscaro)
Extended: Tom Dumoulin, Laurens ten Dam,Søren Kragh Andersen, Sam Oomen, Nikias Arndt, Max Walscheid, Johannes Fröhlinger, Chad Haga, Roy Curvers

There are no new big names, but the team is very strong nevertheless with many interesting young talents.
I wonder what GT will Dumoulin target and if he goes to the Tour what team will Sunweb send?
kiszol
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24 Oct 2017 07:58

Theuns is a very decent signing.
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Re:

25 Oct 2017 07:17

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:Could just be a good year. I'll await the next years to see if there's something Sky'something going on.
If we have TDF train consisting of Kamna, Hofstede, Oomen, Kelderman and finally Dumoulin destroying the rest of the field like nothing, then it's something entirely different

What the hell is wrong with you? I understand Nationalistic Orange Goggles is our national disease, but how many top years do you have to see before you get a little bit suspicious.

Left or right, anyone destroying competitors on the level of GT winners is almost certainly doping(as in winning the jackpot 8 times in a row). You know it, I know it, so why do you dress up with an orange wig and go all appologetic? It's moronic.
Franklin
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Re: Sunweb

25 Oct 2017 10:04

At least they are giving us something to look forward to in the Tour de France. Seeing a train race against bikes is boring but seeing two trains race against each other at least has some potential.

I still think Sky still has more juice but Sunweb is surely catching up.
DanielSong39
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Re:

25 Oct 2017 12:57

Benotti69 wrote:Sunweb ride Giant frames. I would not trust Giant are not part of the 'motor revolution' in the sport.

Agreed. In fact, they may have been pioneers.

Mike Burrows’s contribution to the design of the modern road bike cannot be overstated. If the British engineer hadn’t come up with the Total Compact Road — aka TCR — for Giant in the mid-1990s we might still be measuring ourselves up for a frame by straddling the crossbar and yanking it upwards.

Burrows, having spent years in cycle design’s hinterlands with his monoblade forks, micro lo-pros and blobby monocoque frames, all regarded as too eccentric for the conservative world of road cycling, finally received mainstream recognition after Chris Boardman won the individual pursuit at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992 on the Lotus bike that Burrows had originally created.


Then in 1997:
The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) initially objected to the Giant’s geometry but Hein Verbruggen and fellow Dutchman Jan Derksen, the boss of Giant Europe, sat down together and from that point on every new road bike design was influenced by the TCR.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/icons-of-cycling-giant-tcr-206346#2uo27tLLTzf3VCSU.99


At present Giant bikes are (co)designed by former F1 technician Simon Smart, who seems to have his finger in a lot of pies (triathlon, UK TT-ing, proteams such as Movistar, Sunweb)
In the motorthread Tienus raised the question why Dumoulin's bike is so heavy:
viewtopic.php?p=2059714#p2059714
sniper
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Re: Re:

25 Oct 2017 15:15

sniper wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Sunweb ride Giant frames. I would not trust Giant are not part of the 'motor revolution' in the sport.

Agreed. In fact, they may have been pioneers.

Mike Burrows’s contribution to the design of the modern road bike cannot be overstated. If the British engineer hadn’t come up with the Total Compact Road — aka TCR — for Giant in the mid-1990s we might still be measuring ourselves up for a frame by straddling the crossbar and yanking it upwards.

Burrows, having spent years in cycle design’s hinterlands with his monoblade forks, micro lo-pros and blobby monocoque frames, all regarded as too eccentric for the conservative world of road cycling, finally received mainstream recognition after Chris Boardman won the individual pursuit at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992 on the Lotus bike that Burrows had originally created.


Then in 1997:
The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) initially objected to the Giant’s geometry but Hein Verbruggen and fellow Dutchman Jan Derksen, the boss of Giant Europe, sat down together and from that point on every new road bike design was influenced by the TCR.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/icons-of-cycling-giant-tcr-206346#2uo27tLLTzf3VCSU.99


At present Giant bikes are (co)designed by former F1 technician Simon Smart, who seems to have his finger in a lot of pies (triathlon, UK TT-ing, proteams such as Movistar, Sunweb)
In the motorthread Tienus raised the question why Dumoulin's bike is so heavy:
viewtopic.php?p=2059714#p2059714

Are you saying that Mike Burrows is a pioneer of the "motor revolution" because the frames he designs is atypical to other manufacturers frames? That's what I believe you guys are insinuating and the only "proof" or "evidence" is the fact that Giants frames are large enough to house a motor, which is weird because not just Giant has produced "different" frame designs over the years and almost all frames can house a motor.

This line of discussion is thin.... very thin...
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Re: Re:

25 Oct 2017 15:19

Irondan wrote:
sniper wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Sunweb ride Giant frames. I would not trust Giant are not part of the 'motor revolution' in the sport.

Agreed. In fact, they may have been pioneers.

Mike Burrows’s contribution to the design of the modern road bike cannot be overstated. If the British engineer hadn’t come up with the Total Compact Road — aka TCR — for Giant in the mid-1990s we might still be measuring ourselves up for a frame by straddling the crossbar and yanking it upwards.

Burrows, having spent years in cycle design’s hinterlands with his monoblade forks, micro lo-pros and blobby monocoque frames, all regarded as too eccentric for the conservative world of road cycling, finally received mainstream recognition after Chris Boardman won the individual pursuit at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992 on the Lotus bike that Burrows had originally created.


Then in 1997:
The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) initially objected to the Giant’s geometry but Hein Verbruggen and fellow Dutchman Jan Derksen, the boss of Giant Europe, sat down together and from that point on every new road bike design was influenced by the TCR.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/icons-of-cycling-giant-tcr-206346#2uo27tLLTzf3VCSU.99


At present Giant bikes are (co)designed by former F1 technician Simon Smart, who seems to have his finger in a lot of pies (triathlon, UK TT-ing, proteams such as Movistar, Sunweb)
In the motorthread Tienus raised the question why Dumoulin's bike is so heavy:
viewtopic.php?p=2059714#p2059714

Are you saying that Mike Burrows is a pioneer of the "motor revolution" because the frames he designs is atypical to other manufacturers frames? That's what I believe you guys are insinuating and the only "proof" or "evidence" is the fact that Giants frames are large enough to house a motor, which is weird because not just Giant has produced "different" frame designs over the years and almost all frames can house a motor.

This line of discussion is thin.... very thin...
Drink the Kool-Aid Irondan. Burrows equals the Lotus bike. And he had a thing with Aston Martin too. It's pretty clear he plays a major role in all of this.

Also, there's the Hour bike be built with the drive hidden, so no one would see the motor...
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Re: Re:

25 Oct 2017 15:25

fmk_RoI wrote:
Irondan wrote:
sniper wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Sunweb ride Giant frames. I would not trust Giant are not part of the 'motor revolution' in the sport.

Agreed. In fact, they may have been pioneers.

Mike Burrows’s contribution to the design of the modern road bike cannot be overstated. If the British engineer hadn’t come up with the Total Compact Road — aka TCR — for Giant in the mid-1990s we might still be measuring ourselves up for a frame by straddling the crossbar and yanking it upwards.

Burrows, having spent years in cycle design’s hinterlands with his monoblade forks, micro lo-pros and blobby monocoque frames, all regarded as too eccentric for the conservative world of road cycling, finally received mainstream recognition after Chris Boardman won the individual pursuit at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992 on the Lotus bike that Burrows had originally created.


Then in 1997:
The Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) initially objected to the Giant’s geometry but Hein Verbruggen and fellow Dutchman Jan Derksen, the boss of Giant Europe, sat down together and from that point on every new road bike design was influenced by the TCR.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/icons-of-cycling-giant-tcr-206346#2uo27tLLTzf3VCSU.99


At present Giant bikes are (co)designed by former F1 technician Simon Smart, who seems to have his finger in a lot of pies (triathlon, UK TT-ing, proteams such as Movistar, Sunweb)
In the motorthread Tienus raised the question why Dumoulin's bike is so heavy:
viewtopic.php?p=2059714#p2059714

Are you saying that Mike Burrows is a pioneer of the "motor revolution" because the frames he designs is atypical to other manufacturers frames? That's what I believe you guys are insinuating and the only "proof" or "evidence" is the fact that Giants frames are large enough to house a motor, which is weird because not just Giant has produced "different" frame designs over the years and almost all frames can house a motor.

This line of discussion is thin.... very thin...
Drink the Kool-Aid Irondan. Burrows equals the Lotus bike. And he had a thing with Aston Martin too. It's pretty clear he plays a major role in all of this.

Also, there's the Hour bike be built with the drive hidden, so no one would see the motor...

I'm not "drinking the koolaid", but I could be missing something.

What "hour" bike had a motor designed around the frame?
Darryl Webster wrote:
"Nothing seems to blind peeps as much as patriotism does it!"
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