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Dutch ex-cycling doctor reveals...

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

10 Sep 2017 16:26

El_ojo_del_Tigre wrote:The blood bank charged him 1500 guilders per bag.
1,500 guilders in 1989 was in the region of GBP 400 or USD 750.
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 16:51

Echoes wrote:
Aapjes said: And he actually owns the shirt in which Tommy Simpson died.


What's wrong with that? Thanks for the informative post above though.

I didn't say it was wrong. I just found it interesting.

The soigneur took it from the morgue and gave it to a Dutch sponsor of the Simpson's team. He in turn gave it to his friend, the PR-guy at PDM. That guy got a heart attack and Janssen saved his life. He was grateful and gave the shirt to Janssen.

Simpson's family asked Janssen for it, but he refused.
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10 Sep 2017 17:15

Does Janssen offer any detail on the cases he was able to make go away with a phonecall to Schattenberg?
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 17:39

Aapjes wrote: Simpson's family asked Janssen for it, but he refused.


What a ****, how can you refuse a request like this, especially when you're as dirty as Janssen clearly is?
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 22:13

spalco wrote:What a ****, how can you refuse a request like this, especially when you're as dirty as Janssen clearly is?

He does present himself as now opposing doping and he might treasure the shirt as a reminder of what doping can lead to.
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Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 20:09

GuyIncognito wrote:
But Rooks accepted we know that. We don't know if Kelly accepted, sure, but there's no way it wasn't offered to him.


According to the Bertus Fok diary of the 1988 Tour of France only Rooks, Theunisse and Muller transfused on that race. So what about other PDM riders on other races?

GuyIncognito wrote:Kelly hadn't stopped being good in the Ardennes, he was 5th the previous year. He won LBL that year because he went with an early attack that had all the strongest teams represented so the chase wasn't organized.

Rooks, like I said, was much better in 88 and not so in 89. He was not an "Ardennes specialist", he'd been top10 in the Tour


I missed Kelly's 5th place at the 1988 Liège-Bastogne-Liège, so okay about that point taken. Was rather thinking of the Argentin-Criquielion years when he could not compete with the best, but the first time. However can't we expect a 32/33 year old champion with already many years behind him at that point to be winding down? Normally, he should have been less strong that year than he used to be. To some extent it's true as he lost his World #1 rank but he still won Liège-Bastogne-Liège and the first ever World Cup. Almost got World Champion on a very hilly course. Following years, he would win the Tour of Switzerland for PDM.

I'm less convinced about Rooks though. Rooks once was 9th at the Tour of France, in 1986, I think but in the eighties, a non-GT specialist could do that. Marc Madiot once top10 as well. On the Ardennes Rooks was a lot more consistent. In 1989 Rooks still won a climbing ITT and finished 7th. That was better than anything he did pre-PDM in the mountains.

Aapjes wrote:I didn't say it was wrong. I just found it interesting.


Sorry I thought you meant Bouwmans had the Simpson jersey but I see you edited your post. In my opinion Simpson is not really "referential" in terms of doping, even though I agree he doped. There's more to his death than that.

Anyway thanks for sharing.
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11 Sep 2017 21:22

Kelly was old school. Remember how he was one of the last to start using clipless pedals. It is quite possible he was the same with preparation.
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Re:

11 Sep 2017 21:46

Benotti69 wrote:Kelly was old school. Remember how he was one of the last to start using clipless pedals. It is quite possible he was the same with preparation.
Intralipid
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Re:

16 Sep 2017 08:50

Benotti69 wrote:Kelly was old school. Remember how he was one of the last to start using clipless pedals. It is quite possible he was the same with preparation.


:) :)
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24 Sep 2017 10:08

Im here in Thailand and trying to get Peter for an interview about anything else he wants to talk about.

Do you guys have any questions?

It might be about doping, it might just be about training and a riders health. Whatever he wants to talk about.
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Re:

24 Sep 2017 10:59

durianrider wrote:Im here in Thailand and trying to get Peter for an interview about anything else he wants to talk about.

Do you guys have any questions?

It might be about doping, it might just be about training and a riders health. Whatever he wants to talk about.
Two twin areas: 1) the use of blood transfusions in the 80s, both his own experiences - was it just for the Tour, no other races? discuss the logistics in more detail - but also what he knows about what others were doing (for a summary on what is publicly known - link); and 2) the advent of EPO - if he was still doing transfusions in 1993 (for Bouwmans) he must have been late to that game, but does Theunisse starting in 1991 (he was on blood bags in 88, 89 and 90) fit, in his view?
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Re:

24 Sep 2017 18:25

durianrider wrote:Im here in Thailand and trying to get Peter for an interview about anything else he wants to talk about.

Do you guys have any questions?

It might be about doping, it might just be about training and a riders health. Whatever he wants to talk about.

In addition to what FMK mentioned, here a few items I'd be interested to hear his opinion about.

- Were cyclists and specialists expecting that the UCI would actually do something to fight blood doping when it was officially banned in 1985 and how much did the unwillingness of UCI even to collect blood samples play in the decision by PDM to use the method?

- Was the primary use of transfusions by PDM therapeutic (elevate the shrinking hematocrits during multiweek races) or elevating hematocrits far above natural levels?

- What are his thoughts on why cyclists and other sportspeople remain so secretive about transfusions even when they voluntarily confess other things such as testosterone, corticosteroids and rEPO use? Is it the unwillingness to implicate their helpers or do athletes in retrospect feel they truly had access to methods not available to all and could've gained unfair advantage?

- Was one of the motivations of Janssen to voluntarily come clean to bring a closure to the revelations made a few years ago about the blood doping use in the 1988 Tour de France?
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