Log in:  

Register

Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

24 Oct 2017 21:20

Betting examples - MTF - GC guy lets breakaway guy win stage - cash and joy all around. Or guy selling "medicine" to rider also has a big bet on. Lots of scenarios.
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
"The president is one large S.T.D., and if you’re in close proximity you’re going to get tainted by it.”
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,146
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

25 Oct 2017 09:16

Let's be honest here, just like the "security" argument for reducing teams by one rider in next year's tour de France was an alibi, this betting thing is an alibi as well to go hunting for the earpieces. organisers (ASO in its time) know how bad for racing the earpieces have been but whenever they tried to ban them collective resistance by the peloton made them give up as when they threatened to strike during a Tour de France stage. So you have to use angles that are undisputable even if intellectually dishonest.

The riders and teams clamor for more security ? Surely a peloton of 176 riders is less dangerous than 198 right ? team size reduction comes through using that angle.

Surely riders and teams wouldn't condone betting affecting the races right ? Cue using that argument to fight against earpieces.

The key is that this fight succeeds. We all want to see the riders back on centre stage, not the DSs, cut the SRMs and earpieces away from the race, let the pack work as a pack with its pecking order, its discussions, etc. That's how it should be.
veji11
Member
 
Posts: 771
Joined: 15 Apr 2013 08:53

31 Oct 2017 22:52

6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-wants-to-reduce-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/
"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.


If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/uci-david-lappartient-souhaite-l-interdiction-des-oreillettes-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
"The president is one large S.T.D., and if you’re in close proximity you’re going to get tainted by it.”
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,146
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re:

31 Oct 2017 23:09

Robert5091 wrote:6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-wants-to-reduce-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/
"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.


If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/uci-david-lappartient-souhaite-l-interdiction-des-oreillettes-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html


Does he want the racing to die after ten days?
MatParker117
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 28 Aug 2012 22:05

Re:

01 Nov 2017 09:37

Robert5091 wrote:6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-wants-to-reduce-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/
"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.


If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/uci-david-lappartient-souhaite-l-interdiction-des-oreillettes-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html


Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?
Craigee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 06:18

01 Nov 2017 09:45

The really funny thing is that people like 'The Outer Limits' calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, people like Och calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, people like JV calling for financial reform call for smaller teams, and the only people resisting them are the people in the CPA and affiliated regional riders' bodies. Yet here we have the head of the UCI calling for smaller teams and what do we get? Rebellion.

No form of financial reform has yet been suggested that will result in anything other than smaller teams. One version, IIRC, even foresaw teams with just 15 riders on the whole roster.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

01 Nov 2017 11:46

CPA is there to keep as many riders employeed as possible. No different than any other players union. At least than here in the US.
User avatar veganrob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,321
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 23:15
Location: The D

Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 13:30

Craigee wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-wants-to-reduce-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/
"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.


If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/uci-david-lappartient-souhaite-l-interdiction-des-oreillettes-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html


Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?


He's likely aiming low and hoping to come to a compromise on 7 or 8 per team. No one will agree to six.
User avatar Angliru
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,981
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 13:30

01 Nov 2017 13:53

Six riders will never work - Imagine if you have another 2015 crash, especially early in the race - Lose 2 or 3 riders and then heaven forbid if you then have a TTT - Carnage.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,182
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 20:12

Angliru wrote:
Craigee wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:6 riders per team ? wow!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappartient-wants-to-reduce-grand-tour-teams-to-six-riders-news-shorts/
"At the time, there were 10 riders in the teams, and we managed to go down to nine, but I'm going to go further, and six riders per team would be better,” Lappartient said in an interview with French radio station RMC.


If you can the french speaky http://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme/uci-david-lappartient-souhaite-l-interdiction-des-oreillettes-et-des-equipes-de-six-coureurs-1289274.html


Gee this is drastic. How much support would he get on this?


He's likely aiming low and hoping to come to a compromise on 7 or 8 per team. No one will agree to six.

That is most likely. 8 riders for GTs, 7 for other WT and HC races, 6 for .1 and below would probably be about right.
User avatar 42x16ss
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,473
Joined: 23 May 2009 04:43
Location: Brisbane, Aus

Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 21:59

42x16ss wrote:That is most likely. 8 riders for GTs, 7 for other WT and HC races, 6 for .1 and below would probably be about right.
To clarify: you think he's attempting to haggle in order to bring in a change that's already been signed off and announced? The thought processes round here sometimes go beyond bizarre.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re: Re:

02 Nov 2017 11:17

fmk_RoI wrote:
42x16ss wrote:That is most likely. 8 riders for GTs, 7 for other WT and HC races, 6 for .1 and below would probably be about right.
To clarify: you think he's attempting to haggle in order to bring in a change that's already been signed off and announced? The thought processes round here sometimes go beyond bizarre.
As a special service for those who don't actually follow this sport, here's the rules:

2.2.003 Without prejudice to specific provisions of the UCI Regulations (e.g. provisions in Part IX and XI regarding respectively the UCI Road World Championships and Olympic Games), the number of starting riders per team shall be set by the organiser, with a minimum of 4 and maximum of 7. The organiser shall indicate in the programme or technical guide and on the entry form the number of starting riders per team for the event. This number shall be the same for all teams.

The number of starting riders who are registered on the entry form must be equal to the number set by the organiser. No account shall be taken of any riders entered in excess of that number.

Special provisions for UCI WorldTour

In UCI WorldTour events, the number of starting riders per team is 8 for Grand Tours and 7 for other events.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

02 Nov 2017 15:31

Where does it mention 6 riders for cat 1 races? ;) :p
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
User avatar Netserk
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,888
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 13:10
Location: Denmark

Re: Re:

02 Nov 2017 16:45

fmk_RoI wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
42x16ss wrote:That is most likely. 8 riders for GTs, 7 for other WT and HC races, 6 for .1 and below would probably be about right.
To clarify: you think he's attempting to haggle in order to bring in a change that's already been signed off and announced? The thought processes round here sometimes go beyond bizarre.
As a special service for those who don't actually follow this sport, here's the rules:

2.2.003 Without prejudice to specific provisions of the UCI Regulations (e.g. provisions in Part IX and XI regarding respectively the UCI Road World Championships and Olympic Games), the number of starting riders per team shall be set by the organiser, with a minimum of 4 and maximum of 7. The organiser shall indicate in the programme or technical guide and on the entry form the number of starting riders per team for the event. This number shall be the same for all teams.

The number of starting riders who are registered on the entry form must be equal to the number set by the organiser. No account shall be taken of any riders entered in excess of that number.

Special provisions for UCI WorldTour

In UCI WorldTour events, the number of starting riders per team is 8 for Grand Tours and 7 for other events.


Sounds like the rules for the Holy Hand Grenade.
Ironhead Slim
Junior Member
 
Posts: 84
Joined: 07 Jul 2015 17:48

Re:

02 Nov 2017 16:51

Netserk wrote:Where does it mention 6 riders for cat 1 races? ;) :p
That would be in the part that allows those race organisers discretion, with teams of 4 to 7 riders, and doesn't impose an unreasonable minimum on them.

There are two types of people in the world:
1) those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re: Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

03 Nov 2017 19:23

pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,900
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

04 Nov 2017 11:00


Lappartient and the owner of the team Cookson went to great lengths NOT to ban?
User avatar 42x16ss
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,473
Joined: 23 May 2009 04:43
Location: Brisbane, Aus

Re: Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

04 Nov 2017 18:19

42x16ss wrote:

Lappartient and the owner of the team Cookson went to great lengths NOT to ban?
Were I to dare and ask, do you think it likely you would actually explain that comment? Cause as far as I know it is so divorced from reality it ought to come with a decree nisi and alimony payments. Not only did Cookson make efforts to have Astana banned, those efforts are part of the reason he and Lappartient's VP Di Rocco - who has his own links to Astana - had their public falling out leaving the head of the Italian fed one of the plotters working on ousting the hapless Briton and inserting Lappartient in his place.
User avatar fmk_RoI
Member
 
Posts: 1,989
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re: Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

04 Nov 2017 18:41

fmk_RoI wrote:
42x16ss wrote:

Lappartient and the owner of the team Cookson went to great lengths NOT to ban?
Were I to dare and ask, do you think it likely you would actually explain that comment? Cause as far as I know it is so divorced from reality it ought to come with a decree nisi and alimony payments. Not only did Cookson make efforts to have Astana banned, those efforts are part of the reason he and Lappartient's VP Di Rocco - who has his own links to Astana - had their public falling out leaving the head of the Italian fed one of the plotters working on ousting the hapless Briton and inserting Lappartient in his place.


thank you for the explaination
pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,900
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Lappartient is worse for cycling than Cookson?

05 Nov 2017 15:41

fmk_RoI wrote:
42x16ss wrote:

Lappartient and the owner of the team Cookson went to great lengths NOT to ban?
Were I to dare and ask, do you think it likely you would actually explain that comment? Cause as far as I know it is so divorced from reality it ought to come with a decree nisi and alimony payments. Not only did Cookson make efforts to have Astana banned, those efforts are part of the reason he and Lappartient's VP Di Rocco - who has his own links to Astana - had their public falling out leaving the head of the Italian fed one of the plotters working on ousting the hapless Briton and inserting Lappartient in his place.



Gee here we were wrongfully thinking it was Cookson's supposed many faults as the UCI leader that led to the landslide election result. Cookson didn't appear to place much blame on this himself directly after the election.
Craigee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 06:18

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Back to top