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2018 Winter Olympics doping thread

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

23 Feb 2018 05:51

the delgados wrote:
meat puppet wrote:Never underestimate curling lifestyle - rockstars are tame in comparison.


True that.
I don't remember the year, but a Canadian curler tested positive for cocaine.
Who said curling was boring?
I want to be at their party.


Will skip that, mate. ;)
Alpe73
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Re:

23 Feb 2018 11:11

Catwhoorg wrote:Was there a article about the effect of Meldonium anywhere that I could be linked to ?


Had a friend (who is in medicine) suggest it wasn't performance enhancing, so a good article to link them to would be appreciated


look up sharapova on this and other forum it seems there are a few papers on its PE effects
53*11
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23 Feb 2018 12:13

The meldonium was banned as performance-enhancing because it can increase blood circulation to the periphery as a vasodilator = some more oxygen available for muscle exertion. And related to carnitine as well, that would give some more complex effects
Also supposedly inhibits conversion of testosterone to estrogen - so that is effectively anabolic / androgenic, for both men and women. Like making more use of the same amount of testosterone produced naturally in the body. Which would be a smart doping strategy, because the athletes can say truthfully: that they didn't use synthetic steroid drugs, their body just makes it. As far as I know, Sharapova never had a legitimate medical condition requiring meldonium.

For the sport of curling, it seems almost absurd to use the meldonium. Because scrubbing the ice vigorously, while walking intermittently, doesn't require doping - it's a subtle skill, not endurance through suffering. And, the curling stones slide well on the ice, without requiring massive muscles. Maybe the Russian curling athlete also competes in some other kind of sport in his homeland.
ClassicomanoLuigi
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23 Feb 2018 13:31

Russian female bobsleigh athlete, finished 12th, apparently now positive for "a heart drug".
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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Re: 2018 Winter Olympics doping thread

23 Feb 2018 14:25

I don't understand why these stupid Russians don't just apply for TUE's. I mean it works for Americans, Brits, Canadians and Norwegians. Why make it difficult?
BullsFan22
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Re: 2018 Winter Olympics doping thread

23 Feb 2018 17:53

BullsFan22 wrote:I don't understand why these stupid Russians don't just apply for TUE's. I mean it works for Americans, Brits, Canadians and Norwegians. Why make it difficult?

Maybe they've anticipated future problems with TUE's hance they've avoided them.
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23 Feb 2018 19:02

In the biathlon, Kuzmina has been exceptional and suspicious, while Dahlmeier has seemed ok as her advantage has been her shooting and also she's fatigued enormously. Wierer has appeared extremely clean and likewise the French and all the other germans, while the Swedes (men and women) has far surpassed expectations. In the men, the Germans have been very strong but not to a point of ridiculousness, and boe and fourcade have been themselves, if in the case of boe slightly disappointing.
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23 Feb 2018 19:18

I'd say the German men have been not dissimilar from the women, Peiffer won his gold because of others faltering, he had a good day and hit all the targets and the people who would normally be able to beat him made too many errors, a state of affairs which was rectified in the pursuit when Martin returned to normal. Doll if anything has been below par ski-form-wise, but shot better than we're used to from him - for the last three years or so he's been a top 5 skier, but too inconsistent with the rifle in hand, and here his marksmanship won him that bronze in the pursuit, with everybody else missing targets from that chasing pack, while ordinarily I would have expected him to absolutely take Samuelsson to pieces on the final loop, yet he was laboured and the Swede was able to catch and beat him. He returned to type in the relay, while Schempp was somewhat disappointing in sprint/pursuit but it all came together in the Mass Start.
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Re:

23 Feb 2018 20:22

Brullnux wrote:In the biathlon, Kuzmina has been exceptional and suspicious, while Dahlmeier has seemed ok as her advantage has been her shooting and also she's fatigued enormously. Wierer has appeared extremely clean and likewise the French and all the other germans, while the Swedes (men and women) has far surpassed expectations. In the men, the Germans have been very strong but not to a point of ridiculousness, and boe and fourcade have been themselves, if in the case of boe slightly disappointing.

Wierer has been dealing with insomnia (mainly because of the time difference) durning he games, she's taking sleeping pills but still waking up around 5 times per night, that's one of the reasons why she wasn't as good as usual.
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23 Feb 2018 21:05

Russia had 168 athletes banned and still manages to have 2 out of 4 positive doping tests during the olympics so far, how is that even possible? The doping culture must run deep, they probably don't even consider doping a bad thing, just a natural part of elite athletes' life and training. And why would you even dope for curling, any advantage must be extremely slight. I did love the nasal spray excuse though, children running around in the hotel corridor could have swapped out the medication...
«Sky helped for the GC, so did BMC - a lot of teams tried but one rider isn't enough. Not against De Gendt. He's like 10 riders.»
Oude Geuze
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Re: 2018 Winter Olympics doping thread

23 Feb 2018 21:09

For the curling, the advantage of meldonium seems like would be mostly in training. In competition, to launch the stone by pushing off the hack block is hard, but it's not necessary to be really explosive from the starting-block, like a track sprinter. To accelerate the stone too fast would slide it too far, or too fast for the strategy of the team.
The speed required for curlers to get down the length of the curling sheet quickly seems similar to the lunging motions of the lower body in a sport like fencing. Those quick and powerful leg motions in fencing are in a anaerobic zone. And meanwhile the curlers are also moving their forearms so fast to scrub the ice, that I expect the arms are also in mostly anaerobic effort. The meldonium maybe could be useful in that part, but not important enough to justify the risk of being caught for doping at elite level competition. So the reason for it, I suspect, is more related to practice over a long period - to get the elite skills requires playing many, many matches... and if the meldonium has even a small advantage in speed or recovery, then the reasoning of the athlete could be: it's worth it, in order to get on the Olympic team in the first place, expecting not to be drug-tested in Russia. And not realizing that the meldonium can be detected for a long time
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re:

23 Feb 2018 21:42

Oude Geuze wrote:Russia had 168 athletes banned and still manages to have 2 out of 4 positive doping tests during the olympics so far, how is that even possible? The doping culture must run deep, they probably don't even consider doping a bad thing, just a natural part of elite athletes' life and training. And why would you even dope for curling, any advantage must be extremely slight. I did love the nasal spray excuse though, children running around in the hotel corridor could have swapped out the medication...



Or they could have done this:

https://www.nrk.no/sport/olympiatoppen-har-sendt-over-6000-doser-astmamedisin-til-ol-1.13880280
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24 Feb 2018 07:56

"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 10:21

Shut up, Jens!
glassmoon
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 10:26



Unbelievable stuff :lol: :lol:
bambino
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24 Feb 2018 12:22

Remember, Femke van den Driessche rode for team Kleur op Maat-NoDrugs - just like that, Sergeeva being photographed like that kind of shows how inconsequential that kind of anti-doping platitude is. Or, suggests that people do not consider certain items to be doping, as has been oft-discussed around grey area substances such as the asthma products used by the Norwegian team (sometimes by people who don't actually have asthma, but self-confessed use the nebulizers "when I experience asthma-like symptoms"), use of TUE systems, use up to the limit of substances which are controlled and not outright banned, and so on, and so she may genuinely feel she does not 'do' doping, yet still takes products that could result in an AAF, much as the much-discussed Froome case at present (as opposed to Femke, who could perhaps legitimately claim that she did not do doping, but was cheating in other ways).

That said, a Russian testing positive for "a heart drug" points very much in the direction of meldonium in most people's minds, I would think, and although that was an absolute fiasco in January-February 2017, by this point there's really no excuse.
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 12:48

Libertine Seguros wrote:Remember, Femke van den Driessche rode for team Kleur op Maat-NoDrugs - just like that, Sergeeva being photographed like that kind of shows how inconsequential that kind of anti-doping platitude is. Or, suggests that people do not consider certain items to be doping, as has been oft-discussed around grey area substances such as the asthma products used by the Norwegian team (sometimes by people who don't actually have asthma, but self-confessed use the nebulizers "when I experience asthma-like symptoms"), use of TUE systems, use up to the limit of substances which are controlled and not outright banned, and so on, and so she may genuinely feel she does not 'do' doping, yet still takes products that could result in an AAF, much as the much-discussed Froome case at present (as opposed to Femke, who could perhaps legitimately claim that she did not do doping, but was cheating in other ways).

That said, a Russian testing positive for "a heart drug" points very much in the direction of meldonium in most people's minds, I would think, and although that was an absolute fiasco in January-February 2017, by this point there's really no excuse.


Its Trimetazidine - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/43180504
TheSpud
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Re:

24 Feb 2018 15:17

Libertine Seguros wrote:as has been oft-discussed around grey area substances such as the asthma products used by the Norwegian team (sometimes by people who don't actually have asthma, but self-confessed use the nebulizers "when I experience asthma-like symptoms")
Oh, Libertine...using nebulizer IS NOT grey area and using certain substances is not grey area, too.

Calling things "asthma products" or similar misleading names or saying misleading informations (for example that using nebulizers is grey area)- that is grey area.
Kokoso
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Re: Re:

24 Feb 2018 15:29

Kokoso wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:as has been oft-discussed around grey area substances such as the asthma products used by the Norwegian team (sometimes by people who don't actually have asthma, but self-confessed use the nebulizers "when I experience asthma-like symptoms")
Oh, Libertine...using nebulizer IS NOT grey area and using certain substances is not grey area, too.

Calling things "asthma products" or similar misleading names or saying misleading informations (for example that using nebulizers is grey area)- that is grey area.

Fair enough. Now that you mention it, recovery aiding mild anabolics with aerobic and anaerobic benefits is much more accurate.
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24 Feb 2018 16:11

Trimetazidine seems to be a really unique substance in its exact method of action. For the bobsled, I'm not understanding why it would be a preferred drug, maybe because it's anti-ischemic, it lets the bobsledders train harder on their sprint-starts, with less resulting muscle pain
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000793/

Easily available through diversion or bogus prescriptions...

"Drugs that partially inhibit myocardial fatty acid oxidation increase carbohydrate oxidation, which results in reduced lactate production and a higher cell pH during ischaemia. Trimetazidine (1-[2,3,4-trimethoxibenzyl]-piperazine) is the first and only registered drug in this class, and is available in over 90 countries world-wide"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1472-8206.2003.00154.x/abstract

... and popular in doping ...

"Retrospective data mining regarding doping control analyses conducted between 1999 and 2013 at the Cologne Doping Control Laboratory concerning trimetazidine revealed a considerable prevalence of the drug particularly in endurance and strength sports accounting for up to 39 findings per year"
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262978258_Doping_control_analysis_of_trimetazidine_and_characterization_of_major_metabolites_using_mass_spectrometric_approaches

In the elite bobsled it seems like all the sledders are on-board the sleigh within about 5 seconds - the effort is so short that I don't see how the trimetazidine would have much effect in-competition
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