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Chaves

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Chaves

16 May 2018 19:59

Anyone have comments on his rest day flu? Seemed odd to me.
User avatar red_flanders
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16 May 2018 20:18

The crazy part is that if he has allergies that can get as bad as my husbands sometimes do I actually could see allergies actually causing a time loss that badly. Now was that actually the case, I have no clue or the flu or anything else. No idea.
User avatar Koronin
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Re: Chaves

16 May 2018 20:35

red_flanders wrote:Anyone have comments on his rest day flu? Seemed odd to me.


I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.
I mean, until yesterday, the performance demonstrated by one team among elite competition was astounding.
It still is, even with Chaves out of the mix.
I have no doubt those guys are on some next level ****.
Edited to add that the flu excuse is the first I've heard it. Chavez looked as fit as a fiddle before the disaster day. He did not exhibit any signs of the flu.
User avatar the delgados
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Re: Chaves

16 May 2018 21:09

the delgados wrote:
red_flanders wrote:Anyone have comments on his rest day flu? Seemed odd to me.


I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.
I mean, until yesterday, the performance demonstrated by one team among elite competition was astounding.
It still is, even with Chaves out of the mix.
I have no doubt those guys are on some next level ****.
Edited to add that the flu excuse is the first I've heard it. Chavez looked as fit as a fiddle before the disaster day. He did not exhibit any signs of the flu.


Sorry, to be clear, "rest day flu" is my characterization, it's an old saying about something going wrong with a doping program on the rest day. Probably based on PDM or something similar.
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17 May 2018 12:49

The reason used by the team was allergies.

I will not defend these cyclists because I believe the majority are doping. Or at least taking some king of help even if it is not oxygen vectors. But on the case of Chaves it has to be something else (not just doping). Or maybe a recurrent reaction to something (doping product is not excluded I guess). This is not the first time that it happens to him. In fact before his excellent 2016 year that was his trend. Team and some fans were almost giving up on him. Of course there was that accident that almost took his life. But one day he was on top and the next day he was completely trashed. Like completely out of energy. In 2017 He had personal issues. At the beginning of the year the cold weather. There is always something, but I think it has to do with more than these reasons.

Maybe one day will know.
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Re: Chaves

17 May 2018 15:21

the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?
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Re: Chaves

17 May 2018 21:17

Gung Ho Gun wrote:
the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?


I tend to think of it as something went wrong with something he took. Agree it was way too precipitous for toning it down.
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18 May 2018 12:47

Chaves has been suffering a crisis of confidence for the last 12 months - Collapsed in the second half of the 2017 Vuelta, OTL in PN, Collapsed in Pais Vasco and blew up in Giro 2018 - One can suggest his program is a failure.
yaco
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Re:

18 May 2018 16:12

yaco wrote:Chaves has been suffering a crisis of confidence for the last 12 months - Collapsed in the second half of the 2017 Vuelta, OTL in PN, Collapsed in Pais Vasco and blew up in Giro 2018 - One can suggest his program is a failure.



If this is a confidence thing, it sounds similar to Tejay's problems. Truthfully not sure how you actually fix that.
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18 May 2018 17:13

Well. Today he looked sick.
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Re:

18 May 2018 17:19

Escarabajo wrote:Well. Today he looked sick.


Yeah, agreed. But weird that they made a point the other day of saying he wasn't. It was as much the team reaction and statements that triggered my dope-o-meter as his precipitous drop-off.
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Re: Re:

18 May 2018 17:45

red_flanders wrote:
Escarabajo wrote:Well. Today he looked sick.
Yeah, agreed. But weird that they made a point the other day of saying he wasn't. It was as much the team reaction and statements that triggered my dope-o-meter as his precipitous drop-off.
Gesink claims that the barbecue is real
https://nos.nl/artikel/2231999-gesink-reed-chaves-eraf-hij-wil-me-vast-niet-meer-op-de-barbecue-hebben.html

To me it's not just the timing of Chaves' sudden struggle which is odd, but also that "some questioned the wisdom of having a team barbecue". Of course they questioned it, these are some of the same guys who are obsessed about body weight, nutrition, get doctors to weigh out their portions of food in grams, etc.

Okay, so maybe Chaves likes to grill, as a celebration after a stage race...
https://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/article/2016/05/23/5-reasons-aussies-love-esteban

... but I have never heard of the whole team doing that on a rest day during a grand tour race
ClassicomanoLuigi
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18 May 2018 19:14

ppanther92
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Re: Chaves

18 May 2018 21:07

Gung Ho Gun wrote:
the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?


Good point. I honestly don't know and will defer to those here who know more than me.
I'm just speculating.
Chavez going from hero to absolute zero is definitely not normal in modern day cycling.
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18 May 2018 21:31

When it works it works, but when it doesn't...

Well you saw what happened to Chavez.

At least he didn't suffer a heart attack.
DanielSong39
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Re: Chaves

19 May 2018 15:33

the delgados wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:
the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?


Good point. I honestly don't know and will defer to those here who know more than me.
I'm just speculating.
Chavez going from hero to absolute zero is definitely not normal in modern day cycling.


He's called Chaves and while I don't know whether he's doping or not a decline like witnessed during this Giro is not caused by (stopping with) a doping program - doping doesn't cause these kind of huge short-term differences.
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Re: Chaves

19 May 2018 16:15

Arnout wrote:
the delgados wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:
the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?


Good point. I honestly don't know and will defer to those here who know more than me.
I'm just speculating.
Chavez going from hero to absolute zero is definitely not normal in modern day cycling.


He's called Chaves and while I don't know whether he's doping or not a decline like witnessed during this Giro is not caused by (stopping with) a doping program - doping doesn't cause these kind of huge short-term differences.


Oops! Sorry, Arnout. Thanks for correcting me. Like I said, I was/am merely speculating.
That said, and just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting the decline in his performance was due to suddenly stopping a doping program.
I was speculating--you know, spitballin'--that perhaps he received orders to take it easy. No need to stop a doping program. Just ride slower. I can see why you'd interpret my comment as a suggestion he goes cold turkey.
Not what I meant to imply.
User avatar the delgados
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Re: Chaves

19 May 2018 17:05

the delgados wrote:
Arnout wrote:
the delgados wrote:
Gung Ho Gun wrote:
the delgados wrote:I don't really have anything interesting to add other than to say it is obviously highly suspicious.
I can't help but feel someone from some organization or another issued a warning to take it easy on the droogs.

Wouldn't they have toned it down in a less noticeable way, then?


Good point. I honestly don't know and will defer to those here who know more than me.
I'm just speculating.
Chavez going from hero to absolute zero is definitely not normal in modern day cycling.


He's called Chaves and while I don't know whether he's doping or not a decline like witnessed during this Giro is not caused by (stopping with) a doping program - doping doesn't cause these kind of huge short-term differences.


Oops! Sorry, Arnout. Thanks for correcting me. Like I said, I was/am merely speculating.
That said, and just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting the decline in his performance was due to suddenly stopping a doping program.
I was speculating--you know, spitballin'--that perhaps he received orders to take it easy. No need to stop a doping program. Just ride slower. I can see why you'd interpret my comment as a suggestion he goes cold turkey.
Not what I meant to imply.


No worries. I doubt it though - or he would be a very good actor. He looks absolutely spent also in the Behind the scenes videos. It’s a hard thing to act.
User avatar Arnout
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19 May 2018 17:34

@Arnout.
You are probably correct.
All i know is a lot of eyebrows would be raised if Yates and Chaves were nipping at each other's heels while leaving most others in their dust.
Clearly Yates is unstoppable in the mountains. We'll see when it comes time for the TT, but now the guy is riding up some of the toughest climbs in the world with his mouth shut.
Not normal.
User avatar the delgados
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19 May 2018 18:24

It's pretty simple; he had an adverse reaction.

The stuff is not foolproof.
DanielSong39
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