Log in:  

Register

Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

06 Jun 2018 20:51

Armstrong started a religion around his persona to diffuse any factual reasoning. Leveraged his illness, made victims of it out for fightless losers. Pocketed money followers thought were for research. Victimized team mates and anyone near him not fully his puppet or enabler. Still fails to hide under a rock.

Pantani by having a complex personality made doping somehow accepted.
Riis made it mainstream to explore how much dope the body could take
Boogerd denied, denied, denied, denied. Played the clean ex pro on TV. Got huge gains with tiny cardiovascular engine.
Meirhaeghe took that little bit extra (on top of the god dose) to make sure.
Bjoergen proves that thick bodybuilders CAN be 30 km winners against outright ectomorphs.
Cancellara obviously used a motor for his greatest victories. On top of the usual cocktail.
Cloxxki
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,233
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 14:25

Re: Re:

25 Jun 2018 03:41

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
ppanther92 wrote:I'll keep it on team level.
Top 3:
Sky, Postal and Kelme
Those three teams have got to be near the top, in terms of pervasive doping and in terms of resulting damage to the sport of cycling as a whole. Agree with all three as deserving to be on such a list of honor !
And will round-out a top-10 in my opinion, in no particular order :

    ONCE-Liberty Seguros-Astana
    Rabobank
    Deutsche Telekom-Tmobile
    Mapei
    Festina
    Phonak
    Gewiss
For individual cyclists, that's harder to define... Armstrong obviously takes the number-one spot...
But, requires a lot more thought as to exactly who should be inducted to a Hall of Cycling Shame. Maybe later.
Or, most of the top achievers will end up in this thread, I'm sure


Curious?

"I love cycling. I want to come back because I didn't want to end my career in this way. I feel as if I can win once again the big races."

2012
1st Gold Medal Olympic Road Race, Olympic Games...

A pinnacle achievement in doping?

Audacious and unrepentant.
User avatar TubularBills
Member
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 15 Sep 2010 04:17
Location: Guest

Re:

23 Jul 2018 23:09

ScienceIsCool wrote:As someone who lived through it, Lemond had all the signs of being a true champion. He started winning as a teenager as soon as he picked up the sport and was dominant. Within a few short years he was a pro and again racking up the wins. At 16 he won the junior national road title. AT 17 he was 3rd at world's time trial. At 18 he was junior world's road champ. At 19 he was a neopro. At 20 he was on the podium at Dauphine Libere and Route du Sud. At 21 he was excelling at one week races and came 2nd at Worlds! At the tender age of 22 he won the Worlds and was racking up wins. At 23 he was introduced to GT's and pulled off a podium at the Tour. Another successful year at age 24 and then he was winning the Tour.

This my friends, Is the career arc of a champion. If drugs were taken, they weren't needed. And given Greg's anti-doping stance and aversion to needles in an era where both were widely accepted (getting caught for some stuff would only get you a time penalty), I'd say it's highly likely Greg was cycling's last true champion. Clean too.

John Swanson

+1
User avatar franic
Member
 
Posts: 571
Joined: 04 Oct 2014 17:08

23 Jul 2018 23:31

My top 10:

10-Pantani: incredible talent but incredibly juiced
9-Ullrich: just a little bit less of a talent, the same juice as above
8-Contador: a grimpeur who beat Cancellara in a TT. The king of CERA's years
7-Vino: Ivan Drago
6-Basso: Riis' perfect disciple. Even Simoni called him an alien.
5-Rominger: Ferrari's Frankenstein
4-Riis: Mr. 60%
3-Indurain: 188cm, 80kg and still always there in the mountains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANGbb1Yz8Hw
2-Armstrong: I don't think he doped much more than the others but his attitude, the fact that he deceived thousands of sick people and what he did to Simeoni put him right in spot nr.2
1-Froome: the weakest rider who has ever managed to win a GT. A donkey turned into a horse. Never seen anything like this even during the golden era of EPO
User avatar franic
Member
 
Posts: 571
Joined: 04 Oct 2014 17:08

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

24 Jul 2018 00:36

Are we talking about an entire career, a specific time period or one ridiculous performance that set off alarm bells? I mean Armstrong's performances in the two stages that he won at the Tour in 1993 and 1995 were highly suspect. As was his World's title and you can even add the Flesche Wallonne and San Sebastian to that as well. That was all prior to his transformation into a three week mutant. I suppose in this case we could flag his whole pro career.

A specific time period would be somebody like Andy Schleck who popped up as a 22 year old at the 2007 Giro, making the podium, then pretty much focused on the TDF, where he finished on the podium three times (including 2010 where he won after Contador's DQ). Schleck had good results here and there in some of the hilly classics, but he more or less focused on the Tour, then suspiciously left at the age of 29.

Iban Mayo is in a similar category.

Singular performances would be somebody like Landis, particularly with that now infamous stage 17 solo through the Alps.

Isidro Nozal and the 2003 Vuelta was very strange. Did he do anything after that podium? Don't think he did much after that.

Rumsas is in the same boat as Nozal.

Horner, not really sure where to put him, he was around so long, but somehow in his 40's he wins a GT.

Ricco was 'special' as well.


These are only some that stick out to my mind. I realize there are big fish like Pantani, Cancellara, Basso, Virenque, Riis, Hamilton, etc, etc that I would put, but the above mentioned are ones that would fit the categories I mentioned initially.
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,058
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

Re: Re:

24 Jul 2018 11:34

Merckx index wrote:LOL, this is really getting good. Love it.
This point is actually immortalized in the last stanza of that famous Spanish song, Take CERA, CERA:
Take CERA, CERA
Whatever you want, you’ll win
Your future now begins
Take CERA, CERA
And you’ll win, you’ll win[/b]
This was one of your funniest lyrics yet. And it's not necessarily Spanish, that song has French and Italian dopers covered as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_Sera,_Sera_(Whatever_Will_Be,_Will_Be)
"The saying is always in an English-speaking context, and has no history in Spain, Italy, or France, and in fact is ungrammatical in all three Romance languages."
Broadcasters and Media: Liggett, Walsh, Kirby...[/list]
+1 for media blowhards who were never cyclists or never good enough to compete at the professional level... therefore never needed to dope themselves... but enable doping in cycling by turning a blind eye. (Kirby should stop smoking the "bath salts" prior to his flamme-rouge commentary)
- also, real doper-commentators like Virenque, Jalabert, Sherwen, Millar, Armstrong (podcasting)
- and, I don't believe the excuses and explanations of people like Kelly, Delgado, or Ventura... actually there is probably a long historical list of media personalities
ClassicomanoLuigi
Member
 
Posts: 427
Joined: 06 Jul 2016 03:20

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

24 Jul 2018 13:31

BullsFan22 wrote:Are we talking about an entire career, a specific time period or one ridiculous performance that set off alarm bells? I mean Armstrong's performances in the two stages that he won at the Tour in 1993 and 1995 were highly suspect. As was his World's title and you can even add the Flesche Wallonne and San Sebastian to that as well. That was all prior to his transformation into a three week mutant. I suppose in this case we could flag his whole pro career.

A specific time period would be somebody like Andy Schleck who popped up as a 22 year old at the 2007 Giro, making the podium, then pretty much focused on the TDF, where he finished on the podium three times (including 2010 where he won after Contador's DQ). Schleck had good results here and there in some of the hilly classics, but he more or less focused on the Tour, then suspiciously left at the age of 29.

Iban Mayo is in a similar category.

Singular performances would be somebody like Landis, particularly with that now infamous stage 17 solo through the Alps.

Isidro Nozal and the 2003 Vuelta was very strange. Did he do anything after that podium? Don't think he did much after that.

Rumsas is in the same boat as Nozal.

Horner, not really sure where to put him, he was around so long, but somehow in his 40's he wins a GT.

Ricco was 'special' as well.


These are only some that stick out to my mind. I realize there are big fish like Pantani, Cancellara, Basso, Virenque, Riis, Hamilton, etc, etc that I would put, but the above mentioned are ones that would fit the categories I mentioned initially.


Schleck busted his hip, hardly a cause to claim his decline and exit as suspicious. Not saying he was clean at all, but his injury was bad.
User avatar perico
Member
 
Posts: 1,153
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 21:57

Re:

24 Jul 2018 15:46

Pantani Attacks wrote:LeMond


Why do people feel the need to do this? While I wouldn't be shocked to learn he used PED's (it's cycling, afterall) I've seen zero actual evidence that he did. This just seems like a baseless charge.
eleven
Member
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 20:52

Re: Re:

24 Jul 2018 21:08

[list]Historical: So many of the legends of the Hall really really should be chosen from the classic era, which we tend to overlook completely. Such as Robic, his cheating and nasty personality made him one of the most hated
-------
This is ridiculous.
Can you substantiate your accusations against Jean Robic?
Cheating and nasty, hated, cheez! How ridiculous.
He was a nice character but an aggressive rider who never gave up.
Le breton
Member
 
Posts: 1,379
Joined: 10 Nov 2009 20:23
Location: switzerland

Re: Re:

24 Jul 2018 21:29

Why do people feel the need to do this? While I wouldn't be shocked to learn he used PED's (it's cycling, afterall) I've seen zero actual evidence that he did. This just seems like a baseless charge.[/quote]

Many people are unable to accept that a cyclist can be so far superior to most of his contemporaries.

Funny that 2 of the most daring dopers of the last 30 years have not been named :
MAURO GIANETTI (PFC)
and
ARMAND DE LAS CUEVAS (everything goes, incredible that he survived it).
I would put those 2 at the very top, on a par with Ricco.
Le breton
Member
 
Posts: 1,379
Joined: 10 Nov 2009 20:23
Location: switzerland

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

26 Jul 2018 14:52

Raimondas Rumsas.

Mic drop.
User avatar perico
Member
 
Posts: 1,153
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 21:57

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

26 Jul 2018 20:29

perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.

Mic drop.


I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:

Image
La fatica in montagna per me è poesia (Fatigue in the mountains is poetry to me) - Marco Pantani
Van een ezel kunt ge geen koerspaard maken (You can't turn a donkey into a race horse) - Patrick Lefevere
User avatar Pantani_lives
Member
 
Posts: 1,219
Joined: 03 May 2010 13:27

Re:

27 Jul 2018 10:37

franic wrote:My top 10:

10-Pantani: incredible talent but incredibly juiced
9-Ullrich: just a little bit less of a talent, the same juice as above
8-Contador: a grimpeur who beat Cancellara in a TT. The king of CERA's years
7-Vino: Ivan Drago
6-Basso: Riis' perfect disciple. Even Simoni called him an alien.
5-Rominger: Ferrari's Frankenstein
4-Riis: Mr. 60%
3-Indurain: 188cm, 80kg and still always there in the mountains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANGbb1Yz8Hw
2-Armstrong: I don't think he doped much more than the others but his attitude, the fact that he deceived thousands of sick people and what he did to Simeoni put him right in spot nr.2
1-Froome: the weakest rider who has ever managed to win a GT. A donkey turned into a horse. Never seen anything like this even during the golden era of EPO


Pantani in the hall of shame? I don't think he doped more than anyone else at that time.
Cookster15
Member
 
Posts: 1,088
Joined: 14 May 2011 19:25

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

28 Jul 2018 06:19

Pantani_lives wrote:
perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.
Mic drop.

I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:
Image

Edita was hot. Both of the Rumsas' sons doped like their dad, and one of them died as a result last year.
Very sad and dark ending to what previously was a somewhat comical story
The family that dopes together, stays together. That has got to be considered "hall of shame" material, in some sense
ClassicomanoLuigi
Member
 
Posts: 427
Joined: 06 Jul 2016 03:20

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

28 Jul 2018 07:12

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Pantani_lives wrote:
perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.
Mic drop.

I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:
Image

Edita was hot.

Do you actually have eyes?
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 1,070
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

28 Jul 2018 13:27

Singer01 wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Pantani_lives wrote:
perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.
Mic drop.

I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:
Image

Edita was hot.

Do you actually have eyes?

She's like, 35 years old in that photo and just got out of jail
ClassicomanoLuigi
Member
 
Posts: 427
Joined: 06 Jul 2016 03:20

28 Jul 2018 14:22

Edita Rumsas is about as good looking as my dog's *** hole
"I have seen many lean riders in the peloton, but very few Tour winners."
User avatar Pantani Attacks
Member
 
Posts: 893
Joined: 07 Jul 2015 11:39

Re:

29 Jul 2018 15:22

Pantani Attacks wrote:Edita Rumsas is about as good looking as my dog's *** hole


Prove it :)
Le breton
Member
 
Posts: 1,379
Joined: 10 Nov 2009 20:23
Location: switzerland

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

29 Jul 2018 15:40

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Pantani_lives wrote:
perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.
Mic drop.

I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:

Edita was hot. Both of the Rumsas' sons doped like their dad, and one of them died as a result last year.
Very sad and dark ending to what previously was a somewhat comical story
The family that dopes together, stays together. That has got to be considered "hall of shame" material, in some sense

That's a sad story about Linus Rumsas.
La fatica in montagna per me è poesia (Fatigue in the mountains is poetry to me) - Marco Pantani
Van een ezel kunt ge geen koerspaard maken (You can't turn a donkey into a race horse) - Patrick Lefevere
User avatar Pantani_lives
Member
 
Posts: 1,219
Joined: 03 May 2010 13:27

Re: Hall of Shame in Doping | Inaugural Edition

30 Jul 2018 08:27

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Singer01 wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Pantani_lives wrote:
perico wrote:Raimondas Rumsas.
Mic drop.

I was a fan of his wife Edita, who claimed that the drugs in her car were for her mother-in-law. :twisted:
Image

Edita was hot.

Do you actually have eyes?

She's like, 35 years old in that photo and just got out of jail

'Edita Rumsas' google images - minging.
Edit, not normally making a habit of judging peoples looks, but for scumbags i can make an exception.
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 1,070
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], papisimo98, Susan Westemeyer and 21 guests

Back to top