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Fully doped cycling? 65km TDF Stage 17

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 14:43

thehog wrote:
ferryman wrote:I can see and respect why some find the word offensive. I don't, in the context it has been used in in the Clinic. I suggest the best way forward is to change the thread title to 'Full on' cause it has good potential as a thread to roll on...


I agree. It’s going to be a long thread come the Tour with a lot of Clinic talk about it. Thread must stay no matter what the title. It will be controversial all on its own.

The thread is fine as long as it is discussing doping. It’s clear from your OP that’s what you intended so as long as people stick to that it’s fine.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 15:32

King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Batshit crazy conspiracy talk I can cope with. Use of offensive terminology I can't. C'mon people, grow up.

Don't ever take a senior level EM physics course then... You'll spend months calculating retarded potentials. Meh. I just can't get worked up over words and labels. If you really find a word offensive, it's usually better to co-opt it to rob it of any power.

John Swanson

Let’s not draw ridiculous false equivalencies, is patently obvious that the proper use of the term is not going to cause offense and that’s clearly not the problem here.


Retarded means delayed. The context is all in the usage. In this case it means "stupid". Don't go fully stupid. This does not denigrate anyone except Froome. It has absolutely no reference to someone who is mentally delayed. Froome has and will go full retard.

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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 15:36

ScienceIsCool wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Batshit crazy conspiracy talk I can cope with. Use of offensive terminology I can't. C'mon people, grow up.

Don't ever take a senior level EM physics course then... You'll spend months calculating retarded potentials. Meh. I just can't get worked up over words and labels. If you really find a word offensive, it's usually better to co-opt it to rob it of any power.

John Swanson

Let’s not draw ridiculous false equivalencies, is patently obvious that the proper use of the term is not going to cause offense and that’s clearly not the problem here.


Retarded means delayed. The context is all in the usage. In this case it means "stupid". Don't go fully stupid. This does not denigrate anyone except Froome. It has absolutely no reference to someone who is mentally delayed. Froome has and will go full retard.

John Swanson


You don’t know where the term is coming from do you? I think you should educate yourself before commenting further.
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 15:41

King Boonen wrote:
thehog wrote:
ferryman wrote:I can see and respect why some find the word offensive. I don't, in the context it has been used in in the Clinic. I suggest the best way forward is to change the thread title to 'Full on' cause it has good potential as a thread to roll on...


I agree. It’s going to be a long thread come the Tour with a lot of Clinic talk about it. Thread must stay no matter what the title. It will be controversial all on its own.

The thread is fine as long as it is discussing doping. It’s clear from your OP that’s what you intended so as long as people stick to that it’s fine.

Ferryman, was another mod, not me but I’ll take the credit ;) hopefully the thread can stay on topic now.

I would have gone for Alex’s suggestion of “bat sh1t crazy cycling?” thread.... but good for now! Bring on the motors!! :cool:
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 15:48

King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Batshit crazy conspiracy talk I can cope with. Use of offensive terminology I can't. C'mon people, grow up.

Don't ever take a senior level EM physics course then... You'll spend months calculating retarded potentials. Meh. I just can't get worked up over words and labels. If you really find a word offensive, it's usually better to co-opt it to rob it of any power.

John Swanson

Let’s not draw ridiculous false equivalencies, is patently obvious that the proper use of the term is not going to cause offense and that’s clearly not the problem here.


Retarded means delayed. The context is all in the usage. In this case it means "stupid". Don't go fully stupid. This does not denigrate anyone except Froome. It has absolutely no reference to someone who is mentally delayed. Froome has and will go full retard.

John Swanson


You don’t know where the term is coming from do you? I think you should educate yourself before commenting further.

Yeah. The origin is from delayed mentally. Colloquialized to mean stupid. Co-opted to mean that some cyclists do stupid things that we are supposed to believe are normal. <--- Has nothing to do with people with mental handicaps. Heaven forbid a Brit you know smokes a fag...

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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 15:57

ScienceIsCool wrote:Yeah. The origin is from delayed mentally. Colloquialized to mean stupid. Co-opted to mean that some cyclists do stupid things that we are supposed to believe are normal. <--- Has nothing to do with people with mental handicaps. Heaven forbid a Brit you know smokes a fag...

John <the horror!!> Swanson


You need to google it with Tropic Thunder and full, then move the discussion to the moderator a thread if you wish it to continue please.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 16:03

King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:Yeah. The origin is from delayed mentally. Colloquialized to mean stupid. Co-opted to mean that some cyclists do stupid things that we are supposed to believe are normal. <--- Has nothing to do with people with mental handicaps. Heaven forbid a Brit you know smokes a fag...

John <the horror!!> Swanson


You need to google it with Tropic Thunder and full, then move the discussion to the moderator a thread if you wish it to continue please.


Tropic Thunder is a great movie.

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30 Jun 2018 16:04

Anyways, we are going to see some seriously fun performances on this stage. Delayed or not. I can't wait.

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Re:

30 Jun 2018 16:12

42x16ss wrote:I just hope Movistar get the whole leadership committee and at least one other in the front group and wreak total havoc.



IF Soler can manage his recovery and if he's learned from last year's Vuelta it's possible he could be there. He has the potential to be there. Also remember Amador has a top 5 in a Grand Tour (the Giro), so it's possible he could be there. Thus meaning it's possible they could end up with 5 riders in that group. IF that happens I'd definitely except them to definitely try something.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 20:55

ScienceIsCool wrote:Retarded means delayed. The context is all in the usage. In this case it means "stupid". Don't go fully stupid. This does not denigrate anyone except Froome. It has absolutely no reference to someone who is mentally delayed.

But it does - because in this context it's a pejorative relative term. It's comparing Froome's supposed actions (i.e. cheating) with those who face real challenges in life, and that's offensive to those people and the ones who support and care for them. It's a casual form of discrimination.

I get that people want to suggest a different level of cheating might apply because it's a short stage, but using a pejorative term to suggest such actions are equivalent to what people with intellectual disability would normally do is the problem.
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30 Jun 2018 22:05

Oh please. Give it up. It’s an inversion of meaning in the way that enemy came to mean guest and host in indo european languages.

Froome started a bike retard and confounds when he goes full on.

No one is disregarding or disparaging those challenged with birth/genetic liabilities.
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30 Jun 2018 23:50

I didn't know what you all were talking about until I realized the title of the thread has been changed. That word has been used ad naseum in the clinic. But if you want to change it here is fine with me.

There has been a lot of progress with the right use of words in today's society. We evolve. That's nature. Many things that were said and done in the past are not right today. I am all for that.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2018 23:53

Koronin wrote:
42x16ss wrote:I just hope Movistar get the whole leadership committee and at least one other in the front group and wreak total havoc.



IF Soler can manage his recovery and if he's learned from last year's Vuelta it's possible he could be there. He has the potential to be there. Also remember Amador has a top 5 in a Grand Tour (the Giro), so it's possible he could be there. Thus meaning it's possible they could end up with 5 riders in that group. IF that happens I'd definitely except them to definitely try something.



Movistar if they have their team high GC, which should be the case this stage of he Tour are probably best placed team on GC. Could be fireworks. Sky will have a crashed Thomas, a Giro tired Poels leaving only 6 riders.... maybe.
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Re:

30 Jun 2018 23:54

Escarabajo wrote:I didn't know what you all were talking about until I realized the title of the thread has been changed. That word has been used ad naseum in the clinic. But if you want to change it here is fine with me.

There has been a lot of progress with the right use of words in today's society. We evolve. That's nature. Many things that were said and done in the past are not right today. I am all for that.


To be gay is happy? :cool:
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Re:

30 Jun 2018 23:57

Escarabajo wrote:I didn't know what you all were talking about until I realized the title of the thread has been changed. That word has been used ad naseum in the clinic. But if you want to change it here is fine with me.

There has been a lot of progress with the right use of words in today's society. We evolve. That's nature. Many things that were said and done in the past are not right today. I am all for that.


I think it’s fair to shift the meaning off some mid 1900s derogation and have it apply fully to someone whose other life might be a basement gimp.
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Re: Fully doped cycling? 65km TDF Stage 17

01 Jul 2018 01:37

The re-titled thread works for me. The offending phrase from the original title also implied not only doping, but a disregard for any restraint in performance that might otherwise be used to disguise not only the doped condition, but any overt edge gained over the rest of the peloton from superior doping methods. In relation to Sky, Stage 17 will be the perfect setting for jettisoning any such restraint. If they feel Froome will be exonerated in the AAF case and their delaying strategies will be successful, then why not crank up all the motors and all the dope to go "full-on," as they will have become The Untouchables. If, on the other hand, they feel Froome will be going down after the TDF when the AAF case decision comes in, then Stage 17 will be an opportunity for one last middle finger salute to cycling and its fans outside of the UK. Either way, they will go full-on.
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01 Jul 2018 02:12

When was the last time there was a short mountain stage? Riis in '96?
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Re: Re:

01 Jul 2018 02:35

thehog wrote:
Koronin wrote:
42x16ss wrote:I just hope Movistar get the whole leadership committee and at least one other in the front group and wreak total havoc.



IF Soler can manage his recovery and if he's learned from last year's Vuelta it's possible he could be there. He has the potential to be there. Also remember Amador has a top 5 in a Grand Tour (the Giro), so it's possible he could be there. Thus meaning it's possible they could end up with 5 riders in that group. IF that happens I'd definitely except them to definitely try something.



Movistar if they have their team high GC, which should be the case this stage of he Tour are probably best placed team on GC. Could be fireworks. Sky will have a crashed Thomas, a Giro tired Poels leaving only 6 riders.... maybe.



If they can manage and it does look like a goal of theirs, this stage could be extremely interesting and definitely explosive.
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Re:

01 Jul 2018 04:46

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:When was the last time there was a short mountain stage? Riis in '96?


Short memory. Stage 13, 2017 Tour, 101km. Then of course there’s been MTTs.
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01 Jul 2018 05:04

But this dumba**e stage will produce gaps of seconds between GC guys. It's no better then a "hockey stick" stage of 205 km where the first 200 km are flat. If this was an ITT and stage 20 was the Queen Stage then we'd have a race.
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