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Remco Evenepoel

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Re: Remco Evenepoel

27 Oct 2018 17:59

wansteadimp wrote:
gillan1969 wrote:
Logic-is-your-friend wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:godgiven talent.....hahahahaha.......just like multiple tested positive doper Merckx.

Remco is clean because he trains twice a day! :lol:

Remco is clean becuase his trainer is not from cycling! :lol:

:rolleyes:


Hahaha, wow. You actually think you're making good arguments. You don't have any arguments, just your suspicion. Thats. It. :lol:

I never said he couldn't be doping, just that if i had to guess/bet, i wouldn't think so based on arguments given.
I never said he isn't doping because his trainer doesn't come from cycling. No idea where you got that from.
I never said he isn't doping because he is training twice a day. It merely is a part of a possible explanation.

He's the oldest of the contenders from his birthyear which can make quite a difference at that age.
He's been a standout athlete in terms of stamina ever since he started playing football long before he started cycling.
He's small & light.
He trains more than other juniors and has a personal pro trainer.

These are all FACTS. Does it mean he can't be doping? Nope. Could it explain his dominance? Yup. If you are willing to acknowledge that he simply is very talented as well.

I also believe (but this is entirely subjective) that you would have to be a complete idiot to win high profile races with 10 minutes advance if you're doping. I also fail to see the appeal in doping during your junior ranks. What do these guys earn by winning? I doubt it's very much and that there is little incentive there. To get a nice contract at a pro team? If you trick a team into signing you based on cheating, i'm guessing you're liable and the team could sue you.


is Jamie Burrows not allegedly the exemplar in these cases...he dominated U23s and then struggled as a pro as he had in effect aldready popped his cork.....pro teams need you to have somewhere to go......if he as mired in doping as some on here think then he knows that, his trainer knows that, his dad knows that and all the teams that want to sign him know that......


So Froome was doing it right all along? ;)


Jokes aside, this was accepted practice in the spanish ranks of the late 90s, early 2000s.

The guys with the best results weren't picked up by the best pro teams, they would turn pro with small teams and never amount to anything. This is because the pro teams knew what each was on and knew the results weren't all about talent. What did amateur "stars" like Jose Manuel Vasquez and Francisco Gutierrez achieve as pros? Bupkiss.

Meanwhile the ONCE, Banesto and Kelme (yes, really!) amateur squads were known for being on much lower levels and having no trouble even accepting if a rider didn't want to take anything at all.

This is why Contador, Plaza and Valverde were seen as incredible talents. They won quite a lot despite being on those teams. Saiz was rumoured to be particularly keen on his amateurs riding clean.

However, occasionally a non spanish team that wasn't aware of this would swoop in, sign one of the guys with top results and regret it. I can think of an australian biathlete converted to cyclist who was the butt of jokes in the spanish amateur ranks precisely because he was on "high octane" fuel that no other amateur could afford, paid for by his winnings from biathlon. Festina signed him. He sucked as a pro. Because he had nowhere to "step up" to.

edit: triathlon, not biathlon, what was I thinking
User avatar GuyIncognito
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03 Nov 2018 23:04

And there is also this:

The 21km of Brussels (1/2 Marathon) in 2016, when he was 16 years old, entering his first and only running competition. Open age category. Because he felt like it, without specific preperation (other than doping obviously).

http://www.stratenlopen.be/race.php?id=3795

It's even in his name EvenEPOel :-)
User avatar Logic-is-your-friend
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

04 Nov 2018 00:26

GuyIncognito wrote:However, occasionally a non spanish team that wasn't aware of this would swoop in, sign one of the guys with top results and regret it. I can think of an australian biathlete converted to cyclist who was the butt of jokes in the spanish amateur ranks precisely because he was on "high octane" fuel that no other amateur could afford, paid for by his winnings from biathlon. Festina signed him. He sucked as a pro. Because he had nowhere to "step up" to.

edit: triathlon, not biathlon, what was I thinking

Because the rider in question did a lot of duathlon, which is a two-sport variation on the theme of triathlon (cycling + running; quite popular with cyclists who were ex-triathletes or duathletes pre-cycling career. Emma Pooley is a notable example) before specialising solely in cycling. Because of conflation with triathlon, it sometimes erroneously gets called biathlon, but as far as I know there's only one ex-biathlete in the pro ranks (at least that got to the international competition level in ski-shooting) and that's Benjamí Prades, who rides in Japan and is the older brother of Edu Prades who just signed for Movistar.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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04 Nov 2018 00:45

Oooh, a Jonathan Hall reference! Legendary dude.
User avatar hrotha
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09 Dec 2018 15:54

In an article from RTBF, Carlo Bomans said that last year, when Remco had only just started cycling, they did tests with the juniors and espoirs, on the Ballon d'Alsace. Remco's time, as a first year junior, was almost the same as that of Bjorg Lambrecht, who is 3 years older and was a second year U23 at that time. The same Bjorg Lambrecht that lost the Tour de l'Avenir from Bernal that summer, with (only) 1 minute.
Maybe this can serve as a reference as well.
User avatar Logic-is-your-friend
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

24 Dec 2018 18:16

oh dear

idolises a doper.

https://twitter.com/EvenepoelRemco/status/1077105603254865920

Oh well, quelle surprise!
User avatar Benotti69
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24 Dec 2018 19:51

isn't he allowed idols now?

this forum has a semi for Alberto so why can't anyone else
rick james
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28 Dec 2018 20:08

At least he hasn't written a book about how much he idolizes Lance Armstrong, like a certain British Tour winner recently did.
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29 Dec 2018 07:17

But the British tour winner didn’t write a book about Lance Armstrong
rick james
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Re:

29 Dec 2018 13:56

rick james wrote:isn't he allowed idols now?

this forum has a semi for Alberto so why can't anyone else


...and if you're going to gear up we prefer you partake as an El Pistolero rather than a Bottle.
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

02 Jan 2019 19:12

Happy New Year! Best wishes (for a clean cycling) !

Idolizing is not a good thing. All men have their flaws, cycling riders in particular. Nonetheless, Remco is barely 18 and Benotti is, as usual, accusing by connections. That's already what he did with his father. Patrick Evenepoel was a teammate to a guy who was much later to become a soigneur at US Postal and Sky, so that means Patrick doped. :rolleyes: While everything seems to suggest that Patrick was clean in a highly doped peloton.

I try to never cheer for a (blood or hormone-based) doper. But really, I can understand that not everybody has the same view about as I do (and I'm not a rider anyway) and it's not because somebody cheered for a doper as a child that he would necessarily become a doper as a pro...
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

02 Jan 2019 21:07

I was interested to see this thread because I don't know too much about doping at the youth level and am curious not only how prevalent it is, but what kind of history cyclists might have with this and how people determine whether someone is suspicious. So far in 100+ replies that I've just read through, it seems like the main points made here are that Evenepoel is doping because:

- he's a cyclist
- he won stuff
- his dad was a cyclist
- people dope when they're young sometimes
- he's going to a team where people have doped before
- he has a motor (I guess that also fits under "he's a cyclist"/"he won stuff")

Does anyone have any actual information to direct me towards about youth doping? I saw a link to one article about rugby players in South Africa, but I'm more interested in cyclists - are there any cyclists who talk about starting young in their memoirs or in interviews? I'd imagine with the flurry of tell-all stuff that came out post-Armstrong, there'd have to be some stories about the 90s. Even stories about how riders knew someone was doping in juniors, anything. Evenepoel could be doping or not, but I'm interested in learning more from actual stories, and without anything other than speculation, I think that having an understanding of how doping works at that level is the best way to figure out what I think. Thanks!
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

03 Jan 2019 03:45

skidmark wrote:I was interested to see this thread because I don't know too much about doping at the youth level and am curious not only how prevalent it is, but what kind of history cyclists might have with this and how people determine whether someone is suspicious. So far in 100+ replies that I've just read through, it seems like the main points made here are that Evenepoel is doping because:

- he's a cyclist
- he won stuff
- his dad was a cyclist
- people dope when they're young sometimes
- he's going to a team where people have doped before
- he has a motor (I guess that also fits under "he's a cyclist"/"he won stuff")

Does anyone have any actual information to direct me towards about youth doping? I saw a link to one article about rugby players in South Africa, but I'm more interested in cyclists - are there any cyclists who talk about starting young in their memoirs or in interviews? I'd imagine with the flurry of tell-all stuff that came out post-Armstrong, there'd have to be some stories about the 90s. Even stories about how riders knew someone was doping in juniors, anything. Evenepoel could be doping or not, but I'm interested in learning more from actual stories, and without anything other than speculation, I think that having an understanding of how doping works at that level is the best way to figure out what I think. Thanks!



Good post.
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

03 Jan 2019 07:12

skidmark wrote:I was interested to see this thread because I don't know too much about doping at the youth level and am curious not only how prevalent it is, but what kind of history cyclists might have with this and how people determine whether someone is suspicious. So far in 100+ replies that I've just read through, it seems like the main points made here are that Evenepoel is doping because:

- he's a cyclist
- he won stuff
- his dad was a cyclist
- people dope when they're young sometimes
- he's going to a team where people have doped before
- he has a motor (I guess that also fits under "he's a cyclist"/"he won stuff")

Does anyone have any actual information to direct me towards about youth doping? I saw a link to one article about rugby players in South Africa, but I'm more interested in cyclists - are there any cyclists who talk about starting young in their memoirs or in interviews? I'd imagine with the flurry of tell-all stuff that came out post-Armstrong, there'd have to be some stories about the 90s. Even stories about how riders knew someone was doping in juniors, anything. Evenepoel could be doping or not, but I'm interested in learning more from actual stories, and without anything other than speculation, I think that having an understanding of how doping works at that level is the best way to figure out what I think. Thanks!


Doesn't come much bigger than Lance's "coach", Carmichael.

"In 1989, Carmichael was hired to coach for the junior national cycling team at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs."

"Strock, Latta, Francis and Kaiter all later said Carmichael and Wenzel doped them without their knowledge or permission while they were under age."

https://gazette.com/news/doping-questions-remain-of-springs-based-armstrong-coach/article_7ba96d23-e2d4-5c02-90b3-de8ad73f40e5.html

Strock and Kaiter ended up suing US Cycling.

https://www.velonews.com/2006/04/news/six-years-later-strock-case-comes-to-court_9763

Both riders became seriously ill in their early 20s.

"you'd be hard pressed to find a guy with more class than Strock. One of my favorites"

https://twitter.com/vaughters/status/644184776912408576?lang=en

More here. A couple of other riders also got testicular cancer.

viewtopic.php?t=7583&start=420
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

03 Jan 2019 11:03

Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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03 Jan 2019 12:42

Apparently there is more than one WT team who will not recruit Italian under 23's who ride for Italian registered teams - Will recruit Italians if they ride for Non-Italian teams.
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03 Jan 2019 19:03

A more recent one (announced today): A Danish junior tested positive for methylhexanamin back in May this year. Case is ongoing and the rider's name is not disclosed because of his young age.

No guarantees that it's him, but I've noticed that one of the best Danish juniors, Mattias Skjelmose Jensen, hasn't raced since May, when he won the prestigious Pays de Vaud stage race (winner's list is like reading a who's who of great juniors throughout the year).
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05 Jan 2019 10:30

Ilnur zakarin was popped as a junior too. Not sure there's much more to the story though.
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01 Feb 2019 16:19

The only one in the peloton wearing arm warmers today. :o
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Re:

01 Feb 2019 19:29

Baldinger wrote:The only one in the peloton wearing arm warmers today. :o


Totally. That means he's the only one doping.
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