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Remco Evenepoel

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

28 Sep 2018 07:49

Waterloo Sunrise wrote:Starting to be literally unbelievable unfortunately.


Why starting? He is winning literally every race he enters. Yesterday was not even with two minutes, while he already won some with 5 minutes plus. Was just his usual performance.
ppanther92
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Re:

28 Sep 2018 08:19

Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.
ngent41
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28 Sep 2018 09:24

I never heard of him until a few days ago, and probably should have. i just watched his over-exuberant celebrating in the last kilometres of the road race and thought it way over the top. I'm resisiting (I hope) a temptation not to like him. However, at that age there are huge differences in maturity and ability between riders and I think he should be given the full benefit of the doubt. It's too early to condemn him on just ability and achievement, with nothing else to go on. You may think that's wishy washy but can't we be fair as well as cynical?
User avatar wrinklyvet
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28 Sep 2018 09:26

"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.
User avatar hrotha
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 09:46

ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.
Bolder
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Re:

28 Sep 2018 09:53

hrotha wrote:"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.

With the crowd on this forum, they will start speculating when a 6 year old rides his first race on fat tyre bikes against other 6 year olds. "Must have used a motor or taking EPO + Blood transfusions" :lol:

Seriously. There is some problem with being over sceptical here.
User avatar Dekker_Tifosi
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 10:53

Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.


My personal experience of teens doping is American football, but if you think soccer players don't dope that's extremely naive. If cyclists usually start doping because they are getting dropped /not winning perhaps soccer players do too. And I think I read that he wasn't one of the top players on the soccer team...

Edit : I am not saying I think he's doping for sure just that It doesn't seem unlikely
ngent41
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 11:24

ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.


My personal experience of teens doping is American football, but if you think soccer players don't dope that's extremely naive. If cyclists usually start doping because they are getting dropped /not winning perhaps soccer players do too. And I think I read that he wasn't one of the top players on the soccer team...

Edit : I am not saying I think he's doping for sure just that It doesn't seem unlikely


Yes, but he lacked other skills than fitness.
User avatar lartiste
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 11:27

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
hrotha wrote:"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.

With the crowd on this forum, they will start speculating when a 6 year old rides his first race on fat tyre bikes against other 6 year olds. "Must have used a motor or taking EPO + Blood transfusions" :lol:

Seriously. There is some problem with being over sceptical here.


It's a shame though because I've read some great posts here, exposing the lies from Sky for example, but this topic is one of the reasons why I consider the Clinic as a big joke most of the time, and therefore barely never visit it. Which is, again, a real shame imo..
User avatar Flamin
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 12:37

ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.


My personal experience of teens doping is American football, but if you think soccer players don't dope that's extremely naive. If cyclists usually start doping because they are getting dropped /not winning perhaps soccer players do too. And I think I read that he wasn't one of the top players on the soccer team...

Edit : I am not saying I think he's doping for sure just that It doesn't seem unlikely


I don't the comment to read as football players don't dope. More that Steroids wouldn't be at the top of the list as a performance enhancer so Steroids themselves might not be that common
User avatar Midnightfright
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Re: Remco Evenepoel

28 Sep 2018 13:12

Midnightfright wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2315867#p2315867</span>]ngent41[/url] wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2315857#p2315857</span>]Bolder[/url] wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2315838#p2315838</span>]ngent41[/url] wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2315828#p2315828</span>]Bolder[/url] wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.


My personal experience of teens doping is American football, but if you think soccer players don't dope that's extremely naive. If cyclists usually start doping because they are getting dropped /not winning perhaps soccer players do too. And I think I read that he wasn't one of the top players on the soccer team...

Edit : I am not saying I think he's doping for sure just that It doesn't seem unlikely


I don't the comment to read as football players don't dope. More that Steroids wouldn't be at the top of the list as a performance enhancer so Steroids themselves might not be that common


Yes this i agree with also. I didnt mean to imply that he was taking steroids, just that teenagers i knew did. Obviously theres other drugs that are more helpful for cycling, lots of them available mail order over the internet. As far as him not having the skills to be the best soccer player. yes thats true also. But maybe he thinks if he dopes he will become the best, it obviously doesnt work that way in soccer, its not a pure athletic endeavor, cycling however is.
ngent41
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 14:05

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
hrotha wrote:"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.

With the crowd on this forum, they will start speculating when a 6 year old rides his first race on fat tyre bikes against other 6 year olds. "Must have used a motor or taking EPO + Blood transfusions" :lol:

Seriously. There is some problem with being over sceptical here.


We have plenty of evidence of teenagers doping. Go check out school rubgy teams in Europe to see teenagers abusing PEDs.

I would guess American Football has plenty doping at underage.

Lionel Messi was doped to give a height spurt.

Remco enters cycling in Belgium and blows everyone away and some in the clinic think doping, well it is cycling after all and his family are in the sport a long time.

Naievty is still available in the 21st century it seems.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 14:08

Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.


There must be a lot of talented juniors in a cycling nation like Belgium. Remco blowing races away by 5 minutes doesn't add up.

As for teenagers doping, pffft, go to your local gym, check out local rugby teams, steroids and other PEDs are massive amongst teenage boys.
User avatar Benotti69
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28 Sep 2018 14:12

There's really not much point in opening up threads bout literally anyone who's successful

Open up threads when they're connected to a dodgy doctor and have a sudden increase in performance or smth. But being skeptical on every good performance is just unfair and if anything increases the doping culture
User avatar PremierAndrew
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28 Sep 2018 14:31

Mod hat on:

If you ant to have a general discussion about teenagers doping, it's ubiquity across sports and continents and the utility of such threads you are all free to do that, just open a thread about it and have at it. This thread is specifically about Remco.

Cheers,

KB.
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re:

28 Sep 2018 14:49

PremierAndrew wrote:There's really not much point in opening up threads bout literally anyone who's successful

Open up threads when they're connected to a dodgy doctor and have a sudden increase in performance or smth. But being skeptical on every good performance is just unfair and if anything increases the doping culture


Remco Evenepoel's father Patrick was a teammate of Peter Verbeken.

Verbeken who later became a soigneur at USPS, before being hired by Team Sky as head of their Service House in Belgium.

:rolleyes:

Remco's performances in a sport full of doping and questionable performances means there is a thread. He is also well connected to the sport.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Re:

28 Sep 2018 16:58

Benotti69 wrote:Remco Evenepoel's father Patrick was a teammate of Peter Verbeken.

Verbeken who later became a soigneur at USPS, before being hired by Team Sky as head of their Service House in Belgium.

:rolleyes:

" :rolleyes: " indeed.
User avatar hrotha
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29 Sep 2018 07:01

I think it's certainly legitmate to open up a thread in the Clinic about Remco. I don't have any real knowledge of Belgian doping insiders. And with about 90 percent of riders (i.e. those who are silly or unlucky enough to fail a control), all we have to go on is circumstatial evidence. And part of that evidence is association. Team doctors, independent Ferrari types and dodgy soigneurs are all crucial pieces of the puzzle. So thanks to the above posters for contributing their knowledge.

I agree that just saying, well, he's winning by 5 minutes means he's dirty dirty dirty doesn't add much.
Bolder
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 09:15

Flamin wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
hrotha wrote:"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.

With the crowd on this forum, they will start speculating when a 6 year old rides his first race on fat tyre bikes against other 6 year olds. "Must have used a motor or taking EPO + Blood transfusions" :lol:

Seriously. There is some problem with being over sceptical here.


It's a shame though because I've read some great posts here, exposing the lies from Sky for example, but this topic is one of the reasons why I consider the Clinic as a big joke most of the time, and therefore barely never visit it. Which is, again, a real shame imo..

You won't consider the possibility that Evenepoel is using an illegal means to enhance his performance?
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 09:25

Waterloo Sunrise wrote:Someone claiming he even waited up to get his garmin fixed up. Must be where the accelerator is.

This stood out to me as well. I am still on the fence about him and feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt but it wouldn't surprise me if this is a Van den Driessche situation. Wasn't her father a mediocre (semi-) pro as well?
User avatar LaFlorecita
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