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Remco Evenepoel

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 09:40

LaFlorecita wrote:
Waterloo Sunrise wrote:Someone claiming he even waited up to get his garmin fixed up. Must be where the accelerator is.

This stood out to me as well. I am still on the fence about him and feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt but it wouldn't surprise me if this is a Van den Driessche situation. Wasn't her father a mediocre (semi-) pro as well?


Please stop with the "motor doping." That's grasping at straws. He isn't using a motor.*

(*And if he is, I take it all back!)
Bolder
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 09:48

Bolder wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
Waterloo Sunrise wrote:Someone claiming he even waited up to get his garmin fixed up. Must be where the accelerator is.

This stood out to me as well. I am still on the fence about him and feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt but it wouldn't surprise me if this is a Van den Driessche situation. Wasn't her father a mediocre (semi-) pro as well?


Please stop with the "motor doping." That's grasping at straws. He isn't using a motor.*

(*And if he is, I take it all back!)

Please stop? This is the first time I've mentioned it. And fact is, you simply don't know, I don't know, no one knows except the person in question and some others in the inner circle.
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 09:54

Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.

You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 11:13

LaFlorecita wrote:
Flamin wrote:
Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
hrotha wrote:"Talent shows early. WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT"

With a junior rider, we simply have no useful data to speculate on. We'll see.

With the crowd on this forum, they will start speculating when a 6 year old rides his first race on fat tyre bikes against other 6 year olds. "Must have used a motor or taking EPO + Blood transfusions" :lol:

Seriously. There is some problem with being over sceptical here.


It's a shame though because I've read some great posts here, exposing the lies from Sky for example, but this topic is one of the reasons why I consider the Clinic as a big joke most of the time, and therefore barely never visit it. Which is, again, a real shame imo..

You won't consider the possibility that Evenepoel is using an illegal means to enhance his performance?


No no, I will of course. But when the only/best indicator that Remco is doping is that the step brother from the uncle from the butcher who lived close to a former team mate from his father, ever said 'hi' to someone who might be involved with doping, I think any further discussion in the Clinic is laughable. Until something better comes up. Doesn't mean you can't be suspicious obviously. It's cycling after all.
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 11:17

LaFlorecita wrote:
Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.

You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.


I understand this pov when you're misinformed. He didn't just pick up his bike one day. His first RACE was in April 2017. Before that, he already rode his bike, in summer. And he's been already known to have an incredible endurance since he was a kid. Mainly as a runner.
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 12:18

Flamin wrote:I understand this pov when you're misinformed. He didn't just pick up his bike one day. His first RACE was in April 2017. Before that, he already rode his bike, in summer. And he's been already known to have an incredible endurance since he was a kid. Mainly as a runner.

Sorry, I didn't follow the hype surrounding him as closely as some on here, this was just my impression. I recall reading something about him taking his father's bike for a ride one day and when he came back the bike computer said 120 km with an average speed of 34 kph and that's when his father realized he could become a pro cyclist. To me that doesn't sound like he was a regular cyclist. Maybe it was an inaccurate portrayal of what actually happened to inflate the myth, who knows. If you say he often rode his bike during summer, I trust you rather than this probably slightly exaggerated hype story.
Last edited by LaFlorecita on 29 Sep 2018 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 12:22

Flamin wrote:lNo no, I will of course. But when the only/best indicator that Remco is doping is that the step brother from the uncle from the butcher who lived close to a former team mate from his father, ever said 'hi' to someone who might be involved with doping, I think any further discussion in the Clinic is laughable. Until something better comes up. Doesn't mean you can't be suspicious obviously. It's cycling after all.

The best indicator is that he's a cyclist, or actually a cyclist winning most races he starts by minutes. Sorry, not sorry ;)
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29 Sep 2018 15:08

Remco's won 36 races this year, one with a bigger advantage than the other, but this right here, this is his biggest achievement to date: a clinic thread at the age of 18.
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 15:33

DNP-Old wrote:Remco's won 36 races this year, one with a bigger advantage than the other, but this right here, this is his biggest achievement to date: a clinic thread at the age of 18.

Tells you how much junior results mean, no?

Also, the other great cycling persona that got a clinic thread recently was Carlton Kirby
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29 Sep 2018 16:12

where do we get these garmins with built in accelerators? I'll take 2 please, thank you very much
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 17:07

rick james wrote:where do we get these garmins with built in accelerators? I'll take 2 please, thank you very much


All top teams use them. I am sure Sky service will give you 2.
Last edited by Benotti69 on 29 Sep 2018 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 17:11

Waterloo Sunrise wrote:Starting to be literally unbelievable unfortunately.


Says the guy who only cheers for British cyclists.
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29 Sep 2018 17:14

IMO the guy is and has always been clean. It won't be enough to win Grand Tours, though, and his father and Lefevere will be well aware of that.

Signing for Quickstep instead of Sky was a great move wrt any potential hardcore doping in the not so distant future, as Sky is all about their British riders and Lefevere is, well... Lefevere.
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 18:39

18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:IMO the guy is and has always been clean. It won't be enough to win Grand Tours, though, and his father and Lefevere will be well aware of that.

Signing for Quickstep instead of Sky was a great move wrt any potential hardcore doping in the not so distant future, as Sky is all about their British riders and Lefevere is, well... Lefevere.


So: -

Porte
Uran
Poels
Moscon
Rogers
Henao
Kiriyenka
Kwiatkowski
etc
etc

All clean at Sky?

Or Sky not just focusing on the Brits?
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Re: Re:

29 Sep 2018 21:02

wansteadimp wrote:
18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:IMO the guy is and has always been clean. It won't be enough to win Grand Tours, though, and his father and Lefevere will be well aware of that.

Signing for Quickstep instead of Sky was a great move wrt any potential hardcore doping in the not so distant future, as Sky is all about their British riders and Lefevere is, well... Lefevere.


So: -

Porte
Uran
Poels
Moscon
Rogers
Henao
Kiriyenka
Kwiatkowski
etc
etc

All clean at Sky?

Or Sky not just focusing on the Brits?

I think the implication is the Brits are a better program than the others, rather than the others not being on one at all.
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30 Sep 2018 11:10

I think that performance in the Juniors division is not necessarily an indication of where he will be 5 years from now. Look at the physical difference and speed from Juniors to the U23. Night and day. I saw this phenomena in track and field. Youngsters able to compete with adults at a younger age but as they got older, all that leveled out.

I see it in swimming all the time. Look at Michael Phelps, 16 at the olympics, etc. Most of us remember being in jr high or high school and comparing our skinny weakling bodies to the couple of guys in school that were Animals. All this 'hobby talk' is bullshit. even if people have only been racing for a couple of years were either at a high level in some other endurance sport or were cycling 'as a hobby'. At any age you have the fact of diminishing returns on extensive training, especially at that age.

Some people blossom early beyond their peers. Doping aside, Lance Armstrong was winning pro triathalons at 15. Then a Froome, from Kenya and South Africa that had None of the pipeline training others did. He went out and rode his bike. Didn't do well at the U23, etc. Now he's the best all around grand tour rider of the present generation. If this kid is doping, why didn't the other kids who are doping kick *** like him?
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Re: Re:

30 Sep 2018 12:55

LaFlorecita wrote:You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.

Could it be possible that his dad was also an incredible natural talent, who made it to pro level (relatively) clean in the massive free-for-all doping era? In which case, although he was only a mediocre ex-pro he might have still had the best genetics in the peloton. Maybe he even discouraged, or at least failed to enourage, his son from cycling at a young age because he knew what the game was like.

Perhaps a bit far fetched and unlikely, but no more than the idea he might have a motor control in his Garmin.

Incidentally, re. the Garmin, I think its realistic that being able to knowing your watts on a longish climb, and possibly even having maps on there so you can nail the descent, is more than just a marginal gain, and worth spending a few seconds to wait for.
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Re: Re:

30 Sep 2018 15:11

LaFlorecita wrote:
Bolder wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
Bolder wrote:I think he's clean. I have a hard time believing that a kid who starts cycling at 16 would jump right into doping. You'd think that would come only after a few years of disappointments. But he's been winning from the get go, so why bother?

Have we had testimony from anyone that they started doping as a junior? It seems like most start as neo-pros/espoirs, when the talent has risen to the top and the brutal reality of season-long big-boy racing sets in.



Plenty of teenagers dope. This kid might be new to cycling but he was a footballer, which makes him possibly more suspicious. When i was in high school, I know for a fact at least a dozen people on the school football team were on steroids.


You're certainly right that teenagers will dope, but the standard narrative in cycling is that "when I got to pro team X, I got dropped by the side of the road in my first kermesse, so i started on the gear."

When you say "football" do you mean "football" or "American football" b/c not sure that a European footballer would be on steroids per se.

You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.


You obviously have no clue how genetics work, this is embarrassing.
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Re: Re:

30 Sep 2018 15:18

DFA123 wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.

Could it be possible that his dad was also an incredible natural talent, who made it to pro level (relatively) clean in the massive free-for-all doping era? In which case, although he was only a mediocre ex-pro he might have still had the best genetics in the peloton. Maybe he even discouraged, or at least failed to enourage, his son from cycling at a young age because he knew what the game was like.

Perhaps a bit far fetched and unlikely, but no more than the idea he might have a motor control in his Garmin.


I'm not even going to touch the "Motor" thing, but even before there was EPO his dad was a pretty average amateur getting beaten by guys who didn't make good pros.

Not that I think how good your parents were is the be all end all.
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Re: Re:

30 Sep 2018 15:27

DFA123 wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:You could argue that that's what happened to his father. To me, it seems like a pretty big coincidence that the next Eddy Merckx just happens to be the son of a mediocre ex-pro who was up against and beaten by dopers, and this son just picked up a bike one day, never having shown interest in it before, and immediately seemed to be a world beater. Of course, it could be a coincidence. Could also not be a coincidence, and if that's the case, it will be so obvious in hindsight.

Could it be possible that his dad was also an incredible natural talent, who made it to pro level (relatively) clean in the massive free-for-all doping era? In which case, although he was only a mediocre ex-pro he might have still had the best genetics in the peloton. Maybe he even discouraged, or at least failed to enourage, his son from cycling at a young age because he knew what the game was like.

Perhaps a bit far fetched and unlikely, but no more than the idea he might have a motor control in his Garmin.

Incidentally, re. the Garmin, I think its realistic that being able to knowing your watts on a longish climb, and possibly even having maps on there so you can nail the descent, is more than just a marginal gain, and worth spending a few seconds to wait for.


If i remember correctly, there is a link between endurance and mitochondrial DNA, so probably most of Remcos talent came from the mother's side.
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