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Doping in Soccer/Football

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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21 Feb 2012 07:07

Clemson Cycling wrote:You don't ever rat out a fellow athlete in your sport no matter the situation (al la Low Life Lemond). You can address the situation as a whole just don't name names.

What on earth are you talking about?
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21 Feb 2012 13:47

raphael honigstein @honigstein
@BumperGraham your off the ball interview causing a stir in Germany, re Xavi's medical treatment. can you clarify what he said? @kenearlys
Testing the bounds of reality.
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21 Feb 2012 14:04

Race Radio wrote:Barca is using HGH

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/02/drugs-in-football-pull-the-other-one/

Perhaps the most interesting part is how they appear to not think the rules apply to them


I'd say this applies to almost all top clubs in Europe to be honest....I usually shy away from casting aspersions about people's physical transformations...but just take a quick google for Cristiano Ronaldo shirtless to see the wonderful benefits that HGH could bring you....

Image

so natural....just protein shakes and banana smoothies
"Why I will always be "fanboy" and proud of it" - Hey, 'cos I get paid by the click obviously
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21 Feb 2012 14:51

Zam_Olyas wrote:raphael honigstein @honigstein
@BumperGraham your off the ball interview causing a stir in Germany, re Xavi's medical treatment. can you clarify what he said? @kenearlys


:D

indeed it seems to be arriving in Germany.
I didn't find any press on it though.
Just this blogger:
http://jonathansachse.de/2012/graham-hunter-xavi-bekommt-wachstumshormone/

This could become fun, though, if the press picks it up.

I fear, though, that if the story hits the news, Barca will just deny the story, and everybody will go on like business as usual.
sniper
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21 Feb 2012 15:00

sniper wrote::D

indeed it seems to be arriving in Germany.
I didn't find any press on it though.
Just this blogger:
http://jonathansachse.de/2012/graham-hunter-xavi-bekommt-wachstumshormone/


A story about footballers doping will never hit the press.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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21 Feb 2012 15:44

The Hitch wrote:A story about footballers doping will never hit the press.


actually I wouldn't be so sure....but my suspicion is that Fifa, under Blatter, will never implement anything that even remotely represents stringent testing procedures, and so frankly the public will be left with the impression that "rules" are being bent, not broken.

Generally, I think it's ridiculous, that because cycling has such a comparatively robust testing protocol, and therefore catches more violators, it is considered such a "dirty" sport.

Tennis, Football, Rugby, Baseball, American Football....all you have to do is take a look at the physiques of the athletes since they started visiting all those swiss "knee" and "elbow" specialists in the 90's to see just how far they have come in catching up with the latest "preparation" techniques.
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21 Feb 2012 15:47

straydog wrote:actually I wouldn't be so sure....but my suspicion is that Fifa, under Blatter, will never implement anything that even remotely represents stringent testing procedures, and so frankly the public will be left with the impression that "rules" are being bent, not broken.

Generally, I think it's ridiculous, that because cycling has such a comparatively robust testing protocol, and therefore catches more violators, it is considered such a "dirty" sport.

Tennis, Football, Rugby, Baseball, American Football....all you have to do is take a look at the physiques of the athletes since they started visiting all those swiss "knee" and "elbow" specialists in the 90's to see just how far they have come in catching up with the latest "preparation" techniques.


"robust testing protocol", if you compare it to the rest of the sporting world where big business sports have practically none.

But it is most definitely not robust in cycling, testing has not happened at some recent events, it is that robust!
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21 Feb 2012 15:54

Benotti69 wrote:"robust testing protocol", if you compare it to the rest of the sporting world where big business sports have practically none.

But it is most definitely not robust in cycling, testing has not happened at some recent events, it is that robust!


...hence my use of the adjective "comparatively"....as in comparison to football, rugby, tennis etc etc...but you knew that right?;)

Hey, cycling's protocol is far from perfect, and likely never will be, but the media's obsession with "dirty" cyclists compared to some of the egregious examples of cheating in other sports, smacks of a fanboy like myopia.

Cycling isn't cool...or much of a money spinner in comparison...less "stars" for journos to get their panties in a tizz over and chum up to.
"Why I will always be "fanboy" and proud of it" - Hey, 'cos I get paid by the click obviously
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21 Feb 2012 16:32

straydog wrote:...hence my use of the adjective "comparatively"....as in comparison to football, rugby, tennis etc etc...but you knew that right?;)

Hey, cycling's protocol is far from perfect, and likely never will be, but the media's obsession with "dirty" cyclists compared to some of the egregious examples of cheating in other sports, smacks of a fanboy like myopia.

Cycling isn't cool...or much of a money spinner in comparison...less "stars" for journos to get their panties in a tizz over and chum up to.


It aint robust in my opinion.

Pity the UCI have not seized the chance to make it clean and therefore cool. But myopia is obviously where its at.
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78.

Jean Dubuffet: "For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity."
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21 Feb 2012 19:51

The Hitch wrote:A story about footballers doping will never hit the press.


They might root out a guy playing for a Bayern Mönchengladbach or a Fulham or something once every decade or so, but Barcelona? No way.

Even on this forum, Amsterhammer threw a hissy fit when I commented on the dream team not being so squeaky clean perfect.

I hope it blows up and they all get thrown under the bus. Guardiola is a career cheat and a stain. But if they whack him, they should whack the lot of them, and that's even less likely to happen than it is in cycling.
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21 Feb 2012 20:00

Libertine Seguros wrote:They might root out a guy playing for a Bayern Mönchengladbach or a Fulham or something once every decade or so, but Barcelona? No way.

Even on this forum, Amsterhammer threw a hissy fit when I commented on the dream team not being so squeaky clean perfect.

I hope it blows up and they all get thrown under the bus. Guardiola is a career cheat and a stain. But if they whack him, they should whack the lot of them, and that's even less likely to happen than it is in cycling.


Guardiola is on his way to the premiership.
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21 Feb 2012 20:57

nevada wrote:Guardiola is on his way to the premiership.


And? It just means he gets to lead a different bunch of cheats in worse weather conditions.
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21 Feb 2012 21:10

Libertine Seguros wrote:And? It just means he gets to lead a different bunch of cheats in worse weather conditions.


For more money than Barcelona are paying him ;)
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78.

Jean Dubuffet: "For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity."
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21 Feb 2012 21:43

straydog wrote:I'd say this applies to almost all top clubs in Europe to be honest....I usually shy away from casting aspersions about people's physical transformations...but just take a quick google for Cristiano Ronaldo shirtless to see the wonderful benefits that HGH could bring you....

Image

so natural....just protein shakes and banana smoothies


well at least he doesn't say he became like that without going to gym lol
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23 Feb 2012 10:52

Race Radio wrote:Barca is using HGH

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/02/drugs-in-football-pull-the-other-one/

Perhaps the most interesting part is how they appear to not think the rules apply to them


Word from a trainer I know out here, who attends seminars and the like with folks from Barca, is that they use Growth Factor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_factor

Not uncommon, and perhaps a slip-up by the journo... given the ease at which he states it. That said, I'm of the "they dope" persuasion.
centri
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25 Feb 2012 15:25

Race Radio wrote:Barca is using HGH

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/02/drugs-in-football-pull-the-other-one/

Perhaps the most interesting part is how they appear to not think the rules apply to them


This is getting ridiculous.
Graham Hunter, the big Barca fan, forced to withdraw his slip of the tongue and apoligize:
http://www.netjoven.pe/deportes/84790/Barcelona-Periodista-que-los-acuso-de-doping-se-retracta.html

Damn, he seems to be down on his knees begging for forgiveness, as if somebody's been keeping a gun to his head.
'Es imperdonable. Voy a hacerlo mejor en el futuro', declaró Hunter tras acusar a los 'azulgranas' en especial al mediocampista Xavi.


The guy hadn't even accused anybody. It was a classical slip of the tongue.

Man, would it be great to hear Fuentes come clean.
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28 Feb 2012 19:36

Danish newspaper reports that Cadena Cope has offered FC Barcelona 200.000€ for their doping alledgations against the club (FC B has sued the radio station).

Guess thats Thruth 0 - 1 Omerta

source: http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/fodbold/udenlandsk_fodbold/spanskfodbold/article1716786.ece
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greek european champioship winners

28 Feb 2012 22:49

The football team that I was and am most suspicious about was the Greek European Championship side....their players were average, but their fitness and stamina was unbelievable. Then, a couple of years later, the 2 best Greek sprinters get done just before the olympics.

I have never seen any journalist or blogger explore whether there is a possible connection, or not. The deafening silence shows how football can keep itself above suspicion.

Its so easy to pick on some minority sport that most car drivers don't like anyway.

Can anyone enlighten me?
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28 Feb 2012 23:21

Maybe you're onto something, maybe not, I don't know. I figured Greece won that tournament thanks to playing in a style that was very out-of-vogue at the time, to the point that many of the teams they played against simply didn't know how to face a team playing like that because they'd not done it before. They were compact, well-organised and able to nick that one goal that would win it. As to the phenomenal fitness, Stelios Giannakopoulos was fined by his club team for going down with cramp inside 90 minutes in one of the games, on the basis that if he was looking after his fitness he'd be able to go 90 minutes without cramping up.

I cheered them all the way to it as underdogs, but at the same time it put the cause of the sport back a long way from an entertainment point of view, as now you have lots of identikit national teams who have organised and structured defence and no playmakers or born goalscorers, whose style of play is all about getting the 0-0 or 1-0. This leads to very frustrating games because if they're level, they just stifle the opposition and prevent exciting football being played, and if they fall behind then more often than not they roll over and play dead because they simply don't have any weapons for getting themselves back into a match.

And as soon as teams cottoned on to what the Greeks were doing and worked out ways around it, they were swiftly returned to their usual spot in the European football pile.
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28 Feb 2012 23:22

coinneach wrote:The football team that I was and am most suspicious about was the Greek European Championship side....their players were average, but their fitness and stamina was unbelievable. Then, a couple of years later, the 2 best Greek sprinters get done just before the olympics.

I have never seen any journalist or blogger explore whether there is a possible connection, or not. The deafening silence shows how football can keep itself above suspicion.

Its so easy to pick on some minority sport that most car drivers don't like anyway.

Can anyone enlighten me?


Good point about the Greek. Note that they were trained by a German coach, Rehagel I believe.
The Germans have always been reputed for their incredible stamina, and consequently for their capacity to decide matches in the dying minutes of important games.
It has only rarely been questioned whether that stamina was natural or not. Mostly, it is/was assumed to be a matter of 'mentality'.

One related question is whether in professional football, say at Champions League level, we have a level playing field, or whether Barca and Madrid are really ahead in terms of juicing. Physically they do appear to be a few steps ahead of the rest. But I'm inclined to assume that clubs like Bayern Munich and of course the English and Italian clubs have access to the same quality of PEDs and medical 'care' as Barca and Madrid.

On the other hand, HGH seems to be widespread in Barca and Madrid (see previous posts in this thread), and perhaps this particular drug is not yet as widespread in other parts of Europe?
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