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Doping in Soccer/Football

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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28 Feb 2012 23:29

coinneach wrote:. Then, a couple of years later, the 2 best Greek sprinters get done just before the olympics.


Try a couple of weeks.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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29 Feb 2012 17:28

Old news, but I don't know if it has been covered here.

http://thelongballtactic.wordpress.com/tag/epo/
Andynonomous
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29 Feb 2012 18:23

Andynonomous wrote:Old news, but I don't know if it has been covered here.

http://thelongballtactic.wordpress.com/tag/epo/


Old news indeed, but still a good read.

It's just massively irritating to see how Barca kills freedom of speech by opening legal suits against any journo or news outlet who dares to cast suspicion on their performances.
Even the German press remains silent, perhaps because they know that Bayern Munich and the German nationals probably dope as hard as Barca and Madrid.

I guess all we can do is to hope for some bomb (e.g. Fuentes) to explode at some stage, but then again, the Juve-affair was a small bomb already, and nothing has changed since. There is too much money at stake. That is also the tenor of this nice short article in the German Sueddeutsche Zeitung (on why the German anti-doping corporation NADA is currently lacking funding):
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/j5b38B/492200/Der-Missbrauch-des-Sports.html
sniper
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05 Mar 2012 18:51

Platini says that Spain doing a good job in the fight against doping.


Ok then, since we know that soccer is soooo clean, then he must be right about Spain.
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07 Mar 2012 17:25

sniper wrote:Old news indeed, but still a good read.

It's just massively irritating to see how Barca kills freedom of speech by opening legal suits against any journo or news outlet who dares to cast suspicion on their performances.
Even the German press remains silent, perhaps because they know that Bayern Munich and the German nationals probably dope as hard as Barca and Madrid.

I guess all we can do is to hope for some bomb (e.g. Fuentes) to explode at some stage, but then again, the Juve-affair was a small bomb already, and nothing has changed since. There is too much money at stake. That is also the tenor of this nice short article in the German Sueddeutsche Zeitung (on why the German anti-doping corporation NADA is currently lacking funding):
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/j5b38B/492200/Der-Missbrauch-des-Sports.html


The Fuentes bomb should have hit football when it exploded, but it didn't. Only half the names from Puerto were ever released, and to think that football wasn't tarred is naive, in my opinion.

You only have to look at the relations between Barca/Madrid and the Spanish establishment to work out why nothing hit them. Both clubs are run on debt. Debt that will never be called in because Spanish banks are too scared of the fallout on their brand if they were ever to take down one of those two.

British newspaper The Guardian have a column written by an anonymous footballer (or as it was popularly believed, a group of footballers all contributing to one persona to provide more stories and more anonymity). The Secret Footballer said that in a career spanning over a decade at clubs spanning from strong top-half Premierleague sides to top-level Championship sides, he was tested 3 times. Each time he had a urine test, and was made to do it in front of the testers.

He claimed never to have done drugs, but possibly this was a lie. Most of the columns were related to training, relationships between team-mates, relationships with the media, relationships with fans and personal lives of players. Given that he was still active, perhaps he felt that he'd be pushing the footballing establishment too far with his anonymity if he started discussing more than what was essentially just gossip.

3 times in a long career suggests that you'd give it a go, don't you think?

The link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/sep/16/the-secret-footballer
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07 Mar 2012 17:41

Libertine Seguros wrote:Maybe you're onto something, maybe not, I don't know. I figured Greece won that tournament thanks to playing in a style that was very out-of-vogue at the time, to the point that many of the teams they played against simply didn't know how to face a team playing like that because they'd not done it before. They were compact, well-organised and able to nick that one goal that would win it. As to the phenomenal fitness, Stelios Giannakopoulos was fined by his club team for going down with cramp inside 90 minutes in one of the games, on the basis that if he was looking after his fitness he'd be able to go 90 minutes without cramping up.

I cheered them all the way to it as underdogs, but at the same time it put the cause of the sport back a long way from an entertainment point of view, as now you have lots of identikit national teams who have organised and structured defence and no playmakers or born goalscorers, whose style of play is all about getting the 0-0 or 1-0. This leads to very frustrating games because if they're level, they just stifle the opposition and prevent exciting football being played, and if they fall behind then more often than not they roll over and play dead because they simply don't have any weapons for getting themselves back into a match.

And as soon as teams cottoned on to what the Greeks were doing and worked out ways around it, they were swiftly returned to their usual spot in the European football pile.


You're missing one key ingredient to the Greek success. Luck. It can be easy to forget that in a sport like football one error can define 90 minutes of football, which in turn, for the European championships, define the next four year. When a slip or momentary distraction can change so much, luck plays a huge part.

In terms of underdogs playing unattractive football, I think that it is the job of the supposed favourite to play well and break them down, not to expect them to come out all guns blazing so that they can be shot down like fish in a barrel.
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07 Mar 2012 17:42

Benotti69 wrote:For more money than Barcelona are paying him ;)


He also said that he finds the Barcelona job too stressful.
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07 Mar 2012 18:06

Ibanez wrote:Don't even get me started on rugby. They are absolutely HUGE nowadays.


At the pro-level it's terrible, I think. I have two friends on a top UK uni side who said that they're certain no-one on that side is charging, but up the pyramid they were much less certain.
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07 Mar 2012 19:13

Caruut wrote:In terms of underdogs playing unattractive football, I think that it is the job of the supposed favourite to play well and break them down, not to expect them to come out all guns blazing so that they can be shot down like fish in a barrel.


Of course. And I don't blame teams for playing that way. It's just not very good to watch and does nothing for the game. It's like watching sprint stages in stage races in cycling; these guys aren't pro wrestlers and their job is to win, not to entertain, but the fans watch not out of duty but out of enjoyment, so they are not wrong to voice their displeasure if the spectacle displeases them.
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07 Mar 2012 23:02

There was a show today about messi how he became the best.
One of those s**** documentaries where camera shifts between supposed experts who give 2 obvious often cliched sentences each on things the viewer can see for him/her self.

Anyway not a mention of hgh, and that bold head moron who appeared earlier in this thread regarding revelation that hernandez takes hgh, is one of the "experts" interviewed throuhgout the show.

Of course as in any fake documentary they just talk crap while messis amazing goals are shown.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


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07 Mar 2012 23:11

The Hitch wrote: Anyway not a mention of hgh,


He was a kid of 11 who had a hormone deficiency problem which was diagnosed before he was at Barcelona. He took hgh for the exact reason for which it was designed. It's not as though he's a giant now

Do you think that children should be denied medical treatment in case they become top sportsmen?

Barcelona may well be doping, but there's no drug in the world which makes people play like Messi.
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07 Mar 2012 23:16

Mambo95 wrote:He was a kid of 11 who had a hormone deficiency problem which was diagnosed before he was at Barcelona. He took hgh for the exact reason for which it was designed. It's not as though he's a giant now

Do you think that children should be denied medical treatment in case they become top sportsmen?

Barcelona may well be doping, but there's no drug in the world which makes people play like Messi.


Not unreasonable to suggest that children who have had hormone treatment should not, as adults, be allowed to be professional sportspeople, though.
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07 Mar 2012 23:24

Caruut wrote:Not unreasonable to suggest that children who have had hormone treatment should not, as adults, be allowed to be professional sportspeople, though.


Why? Because it made him bigger? As I mentioned, Messi isn't a giant. The use is legitimate, not for cheating reasons.

Would you stop a child who had taken EPO as six year old to beat leukaemia from playing sport, because without it he might be dead?
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07 Mar 2012 23:28

Mambo95 wrote:He was a kid of 11 who had a hormone deficiency problem which was diagnosed before he was at Barcelona. He took hgh for the exact reason for which it was designed. It's not as though he's a giant now

Do you think that children should be denied medical treatment in case they become top sportsmen?

Barcelona may well be doping, but there's no drug in the world which makes people play like Messi.


There aren't drugs which help with speed strength and stamina :confused:
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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07 Mar 2012 23:29

The Hitch wrote:There aren't drugs which help with speed strength and stamina :confused:


Carlton Cole has speed, strength and stamina in abundance. Sadly, he doesn't play anything like Messi.

The thing with doping in football is that it can help a team, but it's not really going to do much for an individual. It can make them play longer for more games, but it's not going to turn a journeyman into a world beater.
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07 Mar 2012 23:36

Race Radio wrote:Barca is using HGH

http://www.irishpeloton.com/2012/02/drugs-in-football-pull-the-other-one/

Perhaps the most interesting part is how they appear to not think the rules apply to them


This is crazy. In a sport when the gossip machine runs so fast that Jose Mourinho even being in London sparked rumours of him being the next manager of Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs, a comment which, if true, would redefine the entire footballing history of the last few years at the very least goes more or less unreported.
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07 Mar 2012 23:45

Mambo95 wrote:Carlton Cole has speed, strength and stamina in abundance. Sadly, he doesn't play anything like Messi.

The thing with doping in football is that it can help a team, but it's not really going to do much for an individual. It can make them play longer for more games, but it's not going to turn a journeyman into a world beater.



Again with this amateur to pro transformation argument. in no sport Is an amateur going to become a world beater regardless what they take.

Of course doping will help the individual. you take a skilled 169 cm player and dope him till he matches players twice his size on strength, flies away from any opponent in the blink of an eye, and runs circles around the pitch chasing challenging and running after every ball however hopeless, for 90 minutes without a problem.

No doubt all those qualities are purely natural.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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08 Mar 2012 00:00

The Hitch wrote:Again with this amateur to pro transformation argument. in no sport Is an amateur going to become a world beater regardless what they take.

Of course doping will help the individual. you take a skilled 169 cm player and dope him till he matches players twice his size on strength, flies away from any opponent in the blink of an eye, and runs circles around the pitch chasing challenging and running after every ball however hopeless, for 90 minutes without a problem.

No doubt all those qualities are purely natural.


It can improve players slightly (10% at best) in the speed, stamina and strength departments, but it does nothing for the skill and brain aspects.

You can give Carlton Cole all the drugs you like. He'll play longer, harder and for more games than ever before, but he still plays like Carlton Cole, not Rooney or Messi.

Doping will work for teams, but it's unlikely to do much for an individual.

Messi is the best in the world not because he is big (he's not) or strong (he's not) or fast (he's quick, but many are quicker) or possessing great stamina (it's not a strong point for him).
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08 Mar 2012 00:02

The Hitch wrote:Of course doping will help the individual. you take a skilled 169 cm player and dope him till he matches players twice his size on strength, flies away from any opponent in the blink of an eye, and runs circles around the pitch chasing challenging and running after every ball however hopeless, for 90 minutes without a problem.


You forgot to mention he does that twice a week.
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