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Driving into cyclists the Emma way

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Re: Driving into cyclists the Emma way

02 Dec 2016 02:09


that's nuts. I found both by just googling, and could see with no problem - BUT, I click on the above links and can't view them either... :mad:
User avatar Archibald
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Re: Driving into cyclists the Emma way

03 Dec 2016 00:14

Archibald wrote:

that's nuts. I found both by just googling, and could see with no problem - BUT, I click on the above links and can't view them either... :mad:


Yeah you have to come in from a google search to bypass the paywall. The link won't work. Google "Rohan Dennis Adelaide cycling" or similar.

God, the comments make depressing reading. I'll never return to 'straya. I can't stand the hatred.
winkybiker
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03 Dec 2016 02:37

Thanks. Have seen it now. Best not to bother reading comments, especially in News Corp media.

This morning I hear a DHL truck ran into the back of a group of riders on Southern Cross Drive Sydney. 3 injured, not seriously fortunately. At least that's what my FB feed tells me.

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User avatar Alex Simmons/RST
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Re:

05 Dec 2016 18:24

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Thanks. Have seen it now. Best not to bother reading comments, especially in News Corp media.

This morning I hear a DHL truck ran into the back of a group of riders on Southern Cross Drive Sydney. 3 injured, not seriously fortunately. At least that's what my FB feed tells me.

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I'll assume that they were all fined for not having bells. There's no way I'm reading any comments on this. Just to too depressing.
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05 Dec 2016 22:56

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclists-left-with-serious-injuries-following-southern-cross-drive-truck-crash-20161204-gt3xmm.html
The full story including "The group had been on the road for about 15 minutes and were cycling southbound on Southern Cross Drive in Eastlakes when a truck ran into the back of them, leaving two of the riders in hospital with serious injuries.

Mr Long, 55, told Fairfax Media he was riding second to last in the group, which was travelling two abreast. He was chatting with the rider next to him when suddenly he heard the beep of a horn and a sickening crunch.

He was picked up and thrown to the ground, falling hard on his left-hand side. The fall left him with seven broken ribs, a broken collarbone, a punctured lung, a bruised pelvis and a damaged spleen."

and, "The crash site is "exactly opposite" the site of another serious crash involving cyclists from the same club two years ago. In that crash in March 2014, seven cyclists were left with injuries ranging from abrasions to serious spinal fractures when a 28-year-old Sydney man crashed his SUV into them in Southern Cross Drive's city-bound lanes."
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06 Dec 2016 00:02

It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).
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Re:

06 Dec 2016 04:25

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).


There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.
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Re: Re:

08 Dec 2016 02:36

movingtarget wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).


There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.

The elephant in the room is that Southern Cross Drive is a State designated cycling route, but everyone is having too good a time blaming the victims instead of asking why there isn't a more suitable route in the Eastern Suburbs. The M2 motorway in the Northern Suburbs is another similar situation - 100km/h zones and "bike lanes" don't mix.
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08 Dec 2016 19:02

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/4341836/festival-fine-fuss/

Meanwhile, elsewhere in NSW....

Why doesn't Duncan Gay just ban cycling altogether and be done with it?
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Re: Re:

09 Dec 2016 06:02

42x16ss wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It has been a common route for all the city and eastern suburbs training groups for many many years. I've ridden it myself countless times but I'm afraid that the nature of the road and driving culture is such that this is going to become a more regular occurrence. Of course the comments will be of the "blame the victim" style, so not worth reading.

Nevertheless, this is big part of why I stopped riding much in Sydney some time back. I didn't realise how much my training for racing meant I put up with so much ****** on the roads until I "retired" and learned that it was simply not enjoyable to ride there. Riding for pleasure wasn't overly possible. So I left town and have started riding again in much more cycle friendly location, and it's been bliss (although shifting all the extra kgs and crummy fitness are a challenge!).


There is no way I would ride on that road but depending on where you want to go to get to quieter roads it's not that easy and not everyone has a car to drive to a better location as some people do. These riders need to find a better training route it's just not worth the risk. But the fact that some drivers just plough into them at speed means they are not even being seen, a large bunch of riders, but of course the driver could be on something or just a rubbish car driver.

The elephant in the room is that Southern Cross Drive is a State designated cycling route, but everyone is having too good a time blaming the victims instead of asking why there isn't a more suitable route in the Eastern Suburbs. The M2 motorway in the Northern Suburbs is another similar situation - 100km/h zones and "bike lanes" don't mix.


Yes cyclists are taking calculated risks and shouldn't have to but there are many roads like this now especially in the larger Australian cities and then you have some of the drivers themselves, some of whom are totally against cyclists being on the road at all. Australia just doesn't have the cycling culture that some European cities have and probably never will unless there is massive changes from the government and the same level of change in attitudes to cycling and cyclists.
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09 Dec 2016 07:17

When the 3rd runway and tunnel widening happened, it was supposed to included provision for cyclists.
hahahaha, fooled you!
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09 Dec 2016 16:24

winkybiker
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Re:

09 Dec 2016 23:55

winkybiker wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?


Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.
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man knocked off bike by the transport secretary

16 Dec 2016 14:00

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/16/chris-grayling-could-face-private-prosecution-for-dooring-cyclist

Cycling UK offers legal assistance to man who was knocked off bike by the transport secretary as he got out of ministerial car

Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, could face a private prosecution for “dooring” a passing cyclist in Westminster, when he sent a man crashing off his bike by opening the door of his ministerial car in traffic.

A cycling organisation hopes to contact the cyclist to offer legal assistance. Although the transport secretary stopped to apologise and check on the injured man, he left about 90 seconds after the incident, without leaving his details. The cyclist, Jaiqi Liu, was left dazed and injured, with a damaged bike and unaware of the identity of Grayling or the other ministers and aides in the car.

Cycling UK said “dooring” was a criminal offence and that if police did not prosecute, it was prepared to use its cyclists’ defence fund (CDF) to assist Liu in considering a possible case against Grayling.
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Re: Re:

16 Dec 2016 20:51

movingtarget wrote:
winkybiker wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?


Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.

I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.
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Re: Re:

17 Dec 2016 00:21

42x16ss wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
winkybiker wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?


Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.

I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.

29 Sydney metro clubs, and as you say many are participation clubs, not racing clubs. Not helped by the CNSW Board approving commercial organisations to become "clubs".

Clubs in Sydney are very tribal and decent race venues are sparse, and getting fewer each year.
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Re: Re:

17 Dec 2016 11:03

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
winkybiker wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/prospect-of-demolishing-dunc-gray-velodrome-threatens-nsw-cycling-20161208-gt7fes.html

NSW really does hate cyclists, doesn't it?


Track cycling used to be a huge sport especially in Australia. The participation rate was high even at the youth level but times change and the money does not seem to be in it anymore. They do need an indoor velodrome that's for sure but many velodromes when they are built now are multi purpose, it sounds like this one isn't. This seems to be a problem in every Olympics now and not just with velodromes, how are the venues used afterwards ? Look what happened in Athens. Even in the World Cup some stadiums are often little used later. I am sure they could find a way to retain the velodrome but money and patronage is always the bottom line for any venue sports or otherwise.

I live in Brisbane, less than half the size of Sydney where the new velodrome has been built for the 2016 Commonwealth Games. It's been finished for a few weeks but it's already seeing heavy use. Why? Brisbane has 12 clubs in the greater metropolitan area, almost all with regular racing. Sydney has around 15-20 clubs for less than double the population, some aren't even racing clubs.

The attitude to events, permits and suitable venues helps drive participation and quality of events.

29 Sydney metro clubs, and as you say many are participation clubs, not racing clubs. Not helped by the CNSW Board approving commercial organisations to become "clubs".

Clubs in Sydney are very tribal and decent race venues are sparse, and getting fewer each year.


I can imagine that Sydney clubs would have problems with road courses course especially with councils and even residents depending on where they are. Usually the country clubs in regional centres don't have such problems. When I raced years ago there was a lot of traveling done between clubs and events and lot of good races. I am sure that many of those races have disappeared now as well as some of the clubs. In Sydney you had the Tempe velodrome, Camperdown and Wiley Park before the indoor one was built plus you had one at Goulburn, one at Wollongong, I think Nowra had some sort of track and a lot riders would compete between clubs even just on normal club events and on road and track. Wiley Park and Camperdown are long gone of course. Mountain bike racing may have also had an impact although many riders compete on road as well sometimes. I was on the Wollongong's club's website a few months ago and they had suspended their road races because they couldn't get enough volunteer road marshalls but I think it was resolved. Usually I found that a lot of young riders at the club level would drop out when they started working and some would return later but the turnover rate was quite high. Some couldn't handle training at night and some just lost interest or moved elsewhere. Unless the sport is a big one like AFL or cricket or soccer the smaller sports like cycling really depend on their members being dedicated and making themselves useful in some capacity even if they have stopped riding and there are some great officials around that have given a lot of time to the sport. Hopefully some of the younger people follow on.
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18 Dec 2016 09:08

This is particularly awful - 33 year old woman killed on Mona Vale Road today while cycling with a small group - hit by a car:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4044804/Female-cyclist-critical-condition-hit-car-Pymble-Sydney.html
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Re:

19 Dec 2016 05:33

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:This is particularly awful - 33 year old woman killed on Mona Vale Road today while cycling with a small group - hit by a car:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4044804/Female-cyclist-critical-condition-hit-car-Pymble-Sydney.html


Terrible situation. I think the family could have also done without the photos. Maybe a little more tact wouldn't go astray sometimes within the media.
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Re: Re:

19 Dec 2016 19:00

movingtarget wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:This is particularly awful - 33 year old woman killed on Mona Vale Road today while cycling with a small group - hit by a car:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4044804/Female-cyclist-critical-condition-hit-car-Pymble-Sydney.html


Terrible situation. I think the family could have also done without the photos. Maybe a little more tact wouldn't go astray sometimes within the media.


Caption from one of the photos: "Two bystanders are still sporting their helmets and wearing their bike cleats as they comfort a man who has removed his helmet". Subtext is that cycling is so absurdly and fundamentally dangerous (thus requiring the wearing of helmets) that those who voluntarily engage in this risky activity somehow deserve what they get. In other outrageous reporting, the SMH reports that the cyclist "collided with a car", not that she was run down.
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